13 May 2013 at 11:58 am #2103
My dear Adele ***** and welcome!
Thank you very much for your kind words. And yes I know very well what is “God Thing”. I felt the same when i came here .
I’m very sorry for not answering you on time ….but I want you to know that my thoughts are with you . I m posting now something quick because as you read for me, my big problem in my life is time , but promise I will post you soon.
I can imagine that you already read a lot in the site and that your knowledge now is stronger than your first day 01/05/2013. Please keep reading. You will feel the point that you will feel ok . And the clicks are so many believe me.
My only advise for now is please separate the addiction from your hb there are two different things I think that you already know that but of course separate you from the addiction problems .
Make yourself stronger and stronger every day, the knowledege is here, please take it and you will become very strong and you will find the way how to win all the bad feelings inside you.All the years you had your self on "diet" please now give your self the "food" that is needed .Take care your self first , you deserve it. I can understand and feel everything I’m reading in your posts and I will be back soon. The food is the knowledge adele and the open ears, keep reading and listening and you will fell the deference.
You have a very strong profile Adele I believe in you, start believe to yourself too you are a strong woman !
I think that that night that you met me was very hard for you but I think now with your knowledge things will be with baby steps better and better every day . Do not forget yourself me dear Adele.
It is an honor for me that I know you now ……I m sending you my cyber hug .
With all my love ell3 June 2013 at 2:11 pm #2104
I want to say thank you twilight no more jenny and adele for your answers . All helped me a lot . Im sorry for not answering in the right time but I have big problems with my work now .
Velvet I want to say that im ok ….i have a little difficult time with him but not have the time to solve it . That is hard but no time now for his problems I have very big problems at my work and he respect it .
My cg told me with his words::
“””””I don’t need to go to the counselor anymore and exactly never needed.I know it inside me that I never needed. From the first day I said that I stopped and that is the true. And the counselor told me that if I believe that I’m going to him and pay him for helping to stop my addiction is wrong because I don’t have problems with the gambling and exactly from the first day that you found it out I don’t have problems . But I’m going and I will still go because I cannot help you with the “if “ you always have. You cannot believe that I don’t need a therapist and I’m not asking you to do it so I will keep going for you and maybe I find something else for myself with the meetings and give you the time you need too to realize with baby steps that I don’t need the counselor every week .
That was his words . I m a little anxious , I don’t know were is the true in his words . I know that I have to think a lot to find the true in my own head and that is the problem with my cg . He believes that im not trusting him so what ever he say to me for the meetings I will be anxious . I told him that I need toi think a lot and yes that makes me anxious and I m not ready to talk about it now because we have problems at work .
That is my case now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Thank you all very much3 June 2013 at 8:57 pm #2105
I will write to your tomorrow. I will think too.
4 June 2013 at 1:38 pm #2106
The counselor feedback was :
The last sessions were difficult with no progress. The counselor found out some lies or secrets that my cg never told him and asked him, (i dont know what the therapist found) so the last meetings were hard because the attitude of the counselor was different now .
The counselor said :
My cg just wants to let pass the time and everything will just and simple go away. My cg cannot realize until now that he must do things except waiting the time pass. My cg cannot realize until now that is not only that he doesn’t gamble. His recovery is something more than that. Now he has some steps back my cg . But he said that we need time and patience .
I told the counselor that I know all these from the first day. I know that my cg is going to the therapist because I said it. I know that he doesn’t realize everything that happens in a meeting ….but I said him as long as I am with him he will not stop the meetings and I hope I believe I pray that someday he will understand that the meetings are for him and not because he is doing a favor to his wife. That is what my cg told me.
I asked him if he wants another counselor. And he said to me no he is very good and im ok with him I don’t need a new one.
But velvet I know that the counselor is very good with knowledge and I know that my cg interprets things that the counselor says. My cg is a flat mind.
I Don’t know what to think ….i m trying to think. I left for a month his salary in his account and it is still there. But I’m anxious because he told me that I don’t trust him and I cannot see that he never took the money from his account. and im afraid that what if all that are on purpose . He kept him self from not taking the money so I will give him my trust and tell him ok kept the money and ok stopped the counselor . I m getting crazy with the ifs
I m thinking and thinking
— 4/6/2013 2:28:21 µµ: post edited by ell.4 June 2013 at 2:40 pm #2107
Your husband is hoping you can trust him but realises how difficult it is for you, he says he is prepared to go on seeing the counsellor because you are worried. My initial thought is to let him.
Your peace of mind is important. Trust takes ages following the experience you have had and cannot be hurried. When it comes, it is a revelation, you will feel lighter and freer but you don’t feel that yet. The trust I have for my CG is that I trust him to look after his addiction and live a gamble-free life. I cannot and should not allow myself to forget that he is a CG. I know that he is aware every day that he is a CG, that he has to make a daily affirmation to live that day without gambling and that is what he does. This is what I trust. I don’t need him to talk about it, nor do I find the need to talk about it, or worry about it – that is my trust.
What do we mean when we say we trust another human being? I trust my husband and by that I mean he is a good man who has not hurt me. I don’t say ‘yet’ because that is not what we say – but how do I know? Trust is not something we can see – it is confidence in another but that other person is human, not divine. Your husband is a good man who has an addiction, that addiction hurt your relationship and from all you have said and all his words that you have relayed, he has realised that if he wanted his Ell – he had to change. He has done the best he can but the debts are still hurting. You still have to work long difficult hours to keep your lives balanced. The memories are still too fresh.
Do you still have the gambling conversations?
I am sure you are explaining yourself well to your husband but the gambling conversations with a CG who is really trying to live gamble-free means that the CG cannot trust the person they love completely either. There comes a time when we have to take a leap of faith too if we want a healthy relationship.
Dear Ell – I know how scary it is – I am not sure at what point I knew that I had let go of the past – in some ways just writing this to you is like hearing it for the first time. Don’t be anxious – it will not hurt him to keep seeing the counsellor for a time but doing it to please you could be difficult for him because he ***** his chance to prove to you that he can be trusted and also to himself.
Is he going to GA or does he have any other support apart from this counsellor? This site is also available in Greek.
5 June 2013 at 3:10 pm #2108
Velvet ***** and thanks
Velvet, no we don’t have gambling conversations. Nothing for gambling.
But We have issues when only I m finding a new debt. And that is a little often. But we don’t discuss even there velvet.
I’m finding the debt he is telling I’m sorry, I’m getting silence I don’t speak he is frightened and he is waiting me to react. That’s it and nothing more than this. I never do conversations for gambling and I don’t want to. I asked him sometimes if he is tempted and if he thinks that he need something more for his recovery he answered no and that’s it. Im answering that ok I believe you.
I’m not the woman that every day I’m asking how was your day? Are you tempted today? Have you thinking the gamble? What did you do with the therapist? No I’m not asking anything. Only the basic . I’m not telling you that I don’t feel that I would like sometimes to ask all these questions but when I feel that I want to ask something I just stop my self.
The only thing that I do the same every day is I’m giving the money he need for the day only and he lives me in the kitchen the receipts. And I have all the accounts. Except this month which I left him all his salary in his account because I’m running at work and couldn’t transfer it .Of course the money are in the account.
No he is not going to GA . He went at the beginning for one time and he refuse to go because he thinks that he don’t need it. (The Ga here in Greece it is not organized it is an empty room and you wait if someone will come .No one in charge no plans to follow).
No he is not reading the site , he refuse to do it. At the beginning I told him, he knows very well that my recovery is from gambling therapy site. But he also thinks that he doesn’t need to read others stories because his excuse is from the first time that he cannot relate with anyone else story.
So his only support from the beginning was / is the counselor , nothing else and that is because I said it .If he was in his hands he would stop the counselor because he thinks that he is ok and never needed someone to help him to realize that he was addicted . He knows it and he stopped it immediately because he understood his mistake . That is so simple for his mind. In his mind is that he is not addicted anymore. He never was tempted 9 months now and he doesn’t t miss it . And of course he doesn’t need any help and I am the one that im making his recovery a huge matter in my mind because he doesn’t gamble now .But he semms that he understand that he is the reason for all my fears now.
Velvet you know very well all my journey with my cg . Yes he is a good man and yes he doesn’t gamble now and yes he is a good father and a good husband and yes he works a lot to solve with me all the debts. Yes he giving me the receipts and yes he don’t ask for extra money . Yes he is the same husband that I married he is no different in all the others chapters and yes in the only chapter that he made a wrong he solve it and he stopped the gamble . And now we try to solve the consequences.
But the word “totally trust “ No im not ready . I don’t know why but im not ready. if he stops the meetings I will lose the only small and general feedback that I have . I m not ready for this . I know that I must prepare my self for this but im not ready now . It is my instinct.
I need to see something more from just im not playing. I don’t know what but im not ready .
He deserves everything and I deserve everything also . The balance is difficult for me now.I dont know what to do .
Thank you very much velvet for everything and I will write soon .
— 5/6/2013 3:52:26 µµ: post edited by ell.5 June 2013 at 7:51 pm #2109adeleParticipant
From a number of things you’ve said in your recent posts, it seems to me that you are perhaps waiting for your husband to have some sort of revelation in his counseling that will explain how and why this awful thing happened to him: And this revelation will be so eye-opening for him that he will be relieved to understand it himself: And this new understanding will give him the confidence and resolve to never allow it to happen again: And if he is able to open his mind and heart enough to reach this level of understanding he will then be more capable of communicating this assurance to you.
As I write to you I realize this is exactly what I want! And I believe it is absolutely possible – isn’t it Velvet?
You said the counselor found some lies and secrets. I know that holding on to lies and secrets will only bring pressure, guilt and **** swings – so I worry that you have left money in his account….
And you said the counselor’s attitude was different. Do you mean the counselor is concerned? Confused? Frustrated?
I have no experience at all with counseling of any sort, but I have been reading – a lot! I wonder if the counselor wants to dig deeper to determine what is behind your husband’s addiction? In GA I think this is what they call “Pressure Relief”.
I’ve also read that therapy, if it lasts long enough, can determine the trigger that causes the stress that causes the gambling – which is the coping mechanism for dealing with the stress. Once the counselor determines what is causing the stress they can teach the CG new ways to cope with it.
I hope Velvet will clarify some of this.
Your anxiety is so very understandable – I deal with it every day myself.
Please remember what Velvet said:
Your peace of mind is important.
Trust cannot be hurried (not by you and not by your husband).
When it comes, it is a revelation (you cannot just decide one day that you will trust your husband no matter what you feel in your gut). When this happens, you will feel lighter and more free in your heart – but you don’t feel that yet Ell.
I know I have a long ways to go before I’m ready to take that “leap of faith” – and I’m okay with that, even if my husband isn’t. Can you be okay with that for yourself?
I have to believe that recovery and trust can happen, and that things will feel easier once honesty is maintained – but I also know it is a process that takes time, effort and patience.
You and your husband are 9 months into this process and I think you have made tremendous progress!
Be sure to take care of yourself – no matter how busy you are – and as always, my thoughts and prayers are with you.
"… should I give up or should I just keep trying to run after you when there's nothing there?" Adele6 June 2013 at 11:45 am #2110
Adele ***** (a quick answer)
And thank you very much for your post .
Yes that is what I want , i agree with you totaly
In the first paragraph of your answer is all that I need….
Take care your self adele you are doing so well – just keep improving yourself!
7 June 2013 at 11:15 am #2111jenny46Participant
You are doing well, very well. I am becoming a little facinated by this idea of total trust and what it means. I can only wonder whether I could totally trust my CG. Well let me think !! NO. Well that was taxing, and it is because I believe that the addiction that he has is a life long illness with no ‘cure’ and therefor even the longest of recoveries have the potential to stumble along the way. If the addiction is lifelong then so are the risks.
Just as a CG can become complacent and drop the barriers that have given protection, then my own belief is so can we become complacent and ask for trouble where there is no need to do so. So would I have a joint account, loan etc etc with my partner – absolutely not and if that means I am distrustful then, so what, better than being skint.
I would neither wish to place temptation under the nose of what is an extremely powerful addiction. I guess what i’m saying El is I can trust the person to drag me out of a burning room (well possibly not at the moment !! he might quite like to nail up the door!!) but I will never trust the addiction, not ever and although it is good to be able to separate the addiction from the person, we can never take it away. Therefore good barriers are not signs of distrust they are signs of common sense, and protection for both, they are an indicator of the willingness of both to make a successful recovery.
I am further confused when we discuss at length on this forum the tremendous lies we are told and the elaborate lengths that the addiction is capable of, we recognise fully the damage the lies, above everything else, does to our relaitionships and the core of who we are and then suddenly when the word recovery is mentioned we all suddenly begin to wonder why we either cannot trust or why we are in the ‘wrong’ for not trusting or its just not happening – its interesting to say the least, the terrific amount of pressure that we can place on ourselves, to trust.
I think El good barriers will always be a positive, they can be placed there and left alone, forgotten about, removing the need for a lot of time consuming running around and checking. Trust will happen when and if the time is right when it happens you will know it has and where it is. Putting the trust issue on to you is only a form of manipulation.
I have gone right off at a tangent to the point I have forgotten what I was going to say in the first place. I think it was going to be along the lines of – there may never be that revelation, that one thing that proves a change is on the horizon, maybe a series of tiny things that grow along the months ahead, good things that are not one offs or designed to convince us that recovery is happening but little things that happen more than once and are not only going to be visible straight after a counselling session. Sometimes we find the answers where we least expect them to be.
We see things not as they are, but through how we are today x7 June 2013 at 1:39 pm #2112
I understand everything jenny and Adele wrote me, and girls thank you very much. I m thinking a lot of what you said me.
But I feel that I’m in the middle of a serious case now because I must react fair to someone and of course I must protect my insecure.
And I think that the problem at the end is mine not his….even if he caused the problem I feel that is mine….
Well that’s it in a little word: (please just suppose)
You married someone 1 year and you found out that he is a gambler.
You talked him he listened immediately.
He never played from that day he stopped.
9 months he is free
He works 2 jobs to pay the debts
You have all the accounts and he gives you receipts every day and he never ask for money
He cut the internet in our home we don’t have he doesn’t need it
He has now and old model phone with no internet from the first day of his recovery
He doesn’t miss the gamble or the internet( I can say that because he is not anxious about these things.)
The counselor is ok with his progress 9 months now.
He is always and he was home with his family, never go out alone.
He understand his wife that she is with fears now
He is trying every day for the best of his family. He is commitment to this.
And he is with a smile in his face …..
He don’t argue with you …and he answering whatever you ask him
Suppose that this is your husband.
Everything goes ok until now .
And now is the time after 9 months: he is telling you that he feels that he doesn’t need the therapist … or to say it better: not every week
What would you do?
I know that you will tell me that no one could tell you what to do.
But I have to separate my own -my private fears from his early successful recovery.
I don’t know if you can understand me. I think is a red line here. I must be fair enough with him. I want to see the truth not only my feelings.
He is doing very well and he asks something and because I’m afraid I must do what? I must castrate him ??????
I must not and I don’t want if something scares me just say the excuse to myself, ?? ?ll you are not ready so it is ok to still put up your barriers and say no. No one will tell me that I’m doing wrong because I’m the “victim”. But a third person can understand that maybe you are a little unfair.
But you begin to make yourself ready for something only when someone ask you.
I was shocked the first day from fears.
Now I m in the stage that I must separate my fears from his successful recovery. And I think that I will feel the light. Because from the first day I need a real recovery on him and on our relationship.
If he will betray my trust is my private fear. He must first have a chance. If he has no chance in an early but successful recovery then I think that I’m a ****** and I’m looking only myself. The best thing is to try to look both.
I just try to write my thoughts and my feelings but I don’t know if I make sense.
I want to protect me and my fears but I don’t want to do this by just kicking him out. I think that I have 2 different things in my table but in the same time.
If I never give him what is he asking to try then I m not truly with him, I’m with him only when is ok with me??
I’m trying always to think both sides. But the 2 sides are different and I think that I should find the solution for each side. is not the same solution , I suppose , I think .
Forgive me if I don’t make sense. But I know that your answers will help me
7 June 2013 at 2:14 pm #2113
I wrote this before I saw you had written. I will post this as I don’t have time, at the moment to do more – but I will read and reply to your latest post soon..
You have 2 good replies there.
In my opinion a CG does not have a revelation as to why or how they own this terrible addiction – BUT – it is unnecessary for such a revelation because what they learn and what they can understand is that they can live in control of their addiction. There are many, many theories expounded on the ‘why’. Harry wrote recently that ‘gambling is a reaction to life’. It is not necessarily a reaction I believe of a bad life or a good life.
The most important revelation, the one that I do believe in – and which can only come with time – is the revelation that comes to a non-CG when they have trusted for a long time and not been let down.
Ell I accept that my CG is a compulsive gambler. My joy came from feeling that I was in control of my life again. I accepted that although my CG has his addiction for life, he desires more than anything to live in control of his addiction for life and therefore it was down to me to live my life to the full – just as he was going to do.
I have no idea what my CG discussed in his rehab but it doesn’t matter – his memories were often false anyway so how could he remember or know all he had done – addiction counsellors are aware of this. In the UK we say the proof of the pudding is in the eating, which means that if a true recovery is being lived then that is the proof but it does take time.
CGs begin to see the way of truth when they are in recovery and they become lighter because they have laid a tremendous burden down but it is unfair, I think, to expect them to unpick that burden apart to find the reason ‘why’. Of course they try and work out why, of course counsellors and psychiatrists try and work out why but this is where I have a problem.
I have 3 children – all raised with equal opportunity and love. All of them had support and love and loads of fun and I valued honesty in the home. Why one of my children has the addiction to gamble and the other two do not is beyond my comprehension. I accept though, that it is, the way it is and it is the reason I ‘know’ you cannot get the revelation you want because your husband doesn’t know ‘why’ and that is not an excuse
I have no reason to believe that if therapy lasts longer the trigger that causes the gambling will be found. I believe the ‘right’ counselling; the ‘right’ therapy can be enough even if it is for short time but I do think it is better, for ‘your’ peace of mind that your CG continues for longer – and you are my concern.
CGs do not need to find the cause for a change of life. The counsellor can help the CG think through their behaviour and when the CG really wants to live gamble-free they can teach new ways to cope with life. The only thing that really matters, in my opinion, is that the CG changes and lives a life gamble-free. It is what the non-CG wanted more than anything and I believe we have to try and accept that there are many things we will never know.
Sorry Ell – It does come down to ‘time’ again. It will be your greatest healer along with your husband living a decent life.
If your husband continues as he is, one day you will feel lighter – one day you will feel able to forgive and one day you will feel able to trust. I cannot give you a time scale. I can only tell you that I walked that long lonely road before you – I didn’t force trust and I didn’t force forgiveness. One day I forgave. Later on I realised that I was happy and that I trusted my CG with his addiction – it was not for me to worry about – he was looking after his life and I had learned that looking after mine not only gave me peace of mind but made a difference to him.
I am walking with you Ell and you are doing fine. Don’t worry about signs – just keep going as you are. How else can he prove to you that he is gamble-free than by living gamble-free? It is what I live with and I am content.
7 June 2013 at 2:53 pm #2114jenny46Participant
Slow down, I am trying to digest that last post but from what i am reading he is doing all that he can, but both of you will work your recoveries at a different pace. You are being fair – more than fair and if on the odd occaision you lapse into some little ****** then so what – we are not perfect are we.
You may know the cause of the problem but yet you feel it is yours – well I get that because I felt the same way only because if you love someone and you live with them how can it not be your problem to, the only difference I could say is that you cannot solve it for both of you.
There is no need to throw him out or to put up that sort of barrier (unless you want to!!), by barriers I mean financial protection which can help you relax and remove some of the risks for him, not big walls around you fuelled by fear, although I could understand that to.
I see you talk a lot about his recovery and the recovery of your relaitionship but not much about your own recovery. Your fears are important and are very real and no I would not tell you what to do, only what I would do and right now that would be exactly what I am doing now – nothing !! I am just enjoying the company of my partner and not stressing over things that I know I cannot control or change.
Your recovery is important El, your ***** are as important as his, thats not being unfair, but one thing I did learn is that someone who is in early recovery struggles to cope with their own ***** and cannot cope with ours as well. Another good way of supporting him is to be happy by doing the things that make you happy. Your recovery is within you El.
We see things not as they are, but through how we are today x7 June 2013 at 5:56 pm #2115
I ‘think’ I might have answered you in my post already, indirectly.
Your heart appears to be telling you to let go but your mind is afraid to do so.
Apart from a longer time without gambling Ell, I have no more to base my happiness on than you have. If you let go, you will be like me. We both love CGs, we are both aware what compulsive gambling means but we both want to let go, forget the sadness and celebrate our lives because our CGs ‘are’ controlling their addictions. Nobody told me when to let go – it was my decision- nobody could tell me – I didn’t even know myself until it happened. It would appear I could have done it after 9 months and the result would have been the same.
I haven’t said it for a time but there is no judgement on this forum and I certainly cannot judge anyone. Whatever you decide to do will be accepted by me.
You are trying to see the solution from 2 sides and they are different but fundamentally you both want the same thing – to live without the compulsion to gamble in your lives. Recoveries are different – they don’t conform but as long as they keep moving forward you will be going the right way.
Fear diminishes our lives. The more effort you put into visualizing a successful outcome, depicting with crystal clarity what ‘you’ want to happen, the more your feelings of confidence with increase.
I use the expression that I will not live with the addiction to gamble again. Like me Ell – if you trust him and he lets you down badly again – you will know what to do.
9 June 2013 at 9:11 am #2116
thank you jenny for your post , i need it and i appreciate your answer .
It is Sunday and im at work ….
The poem "Limbo " came on time, thank you from my heart .
With love ell3 July 2013 at 12:51 pm #2117
yesterday late at night i ***** the money and it was 195 eyro . Today in the morning was 145 euro . OK 50 euros missing and he opened my bag to take the keys in the morning . i asked him were is the 50 euro and he told me that he didnt took it and he tried to prove that i ***** wrong the money. I ***** the money yesterday in front of him . Something dont fit in the puzzle. He told me that he didnt took and that he con not do anything else to belive him .
something is happening….i dont know what but something is
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.