[adele]

My husband began gambling compulsively 2 years ago. At this point he is incapable and/or unwilling to stop himself no matter the consequences.
I no longer recognize this man, and I do not love this man. Our 25 year marriage is crumbling – my physical, mental and emotional health is deteriorating – my house is a disaster – my life is a mess – and my spirit is slowly dying.
I miss my husband desperately.
I doubt that I will be as strong as so many of you here are. My heart aches at the same time my admiration grows for you all. My grievances will seem petty in comparison to some of your stories, but I sense that my last thread of hope may be dangling precariously from this site.
I have prayed to God for guidance and I believe He has sent me here to begin healing. Thank you all for sharing the good and the bad, and a very special thanks to you, Velvet, for your extraordinary mind and heart.
"… should I give up or should I just keep trying to run after you when there’s nothing there?"       – Adele –
— 5/4/2013 5:10:23 PM: post edited by chasing pavements.
— 5/4/2013 5:14:07 PM: post edited by chasing pavements.
— 5/4/2013 5:14:49 PM: post edited by chasing pavements.– 5/4/2013 5:15:22 PM: post edited by chasing pavements.

[velvet]

 
Dear Adele
Your grievances are not petty, you do need healing and I hope you feel you have come to a place that is right for you – you are certainly very welcome.
The most important line I feel in your post is that you feel your spirit is slowly dying and that is what I hope sharing time with us on this forum will change for you.   If our spirits die it is because we allow them to die but you have the ability to change. You have untapped strengths, your husband’s addiction is his – nor yours.  
I did not recognise my CG and I could not love the active CG, my house was a disaster, my life was a mess but I don’t deserve admiration for changing my life.   There comes a point where I think we have to make a choice but I believe it is better to make choices when we are fully informed and that is what I would want you to be. 
I cannot tell you what to do.   I believe that given time you will know what is right for you.   I don’t think you should run after anybody and I don’t think you should give up on you – I know that was not quite what you meant but it is my first thought.
I was closing my computer, as I was going to bed, when I saw your post but I will write to you tomorrow.   You were very brave to write such a post and I’m glad you did.
If you read this before I get a chance to write again – please tell me a bit about what your marriage was like before the addiction took hold. Do you have children?
You are not alone Adele. I will walk with you for as long as you need me.   I understand and will continue to understand, all you say. 
I don’t know whether you know the words of ‘Yesterday, Today and Tomorrow’ but I hope they help.
There are two days in every week about which we should not worry; two days which should be kept free from fear and apprehension. 
One of these days is yesterday with its mistakes and cares, its faults and blunders, its aches and pains.  Al the money in the world cannot bring back yesterday.  Yesterday has passed forever beyond our control.  We cannot undo a single act we performed.  We cannot ***** a single word we said.  Yesterday is gone.
The other day we should not worry about is tomorrow with its possible adversities, its burdens, its large promise or poor performance.  Tomorrow is also beyond our immediae control.
Tomorrow’s sun will rise, either in splendour or behnd a mask of clouds – but it will rise.  Until it does, we have no stake in tomorrow, for it is as yet unborn.
This leaves only one day – TODAY.   Any person can fight the battles of just one day.  It is only when you and I add the burdens of these two awful eternities – yesterday and tomorrow – that we break down.  It is not the experience of today that drives people mad – it is the remorse or bitterness of something which hapened yesterday and the dread of what tomorrow may bring.  Let us therefore LIVE BUT ONE DAY AT A TIME.
I will write soon
Velvet
 

[annesingleton]

Originally posted by Chasing Pavements
My husband began gambling compulsively 2 years ago. At this point he is incapable and/or unwilling to stop himself no matter the consequences. I no longer recognize this man, and I do not love this man.
Our 25 year marriage is crumbling – my physical, mental and emotional health is deteriorating – my house is a disaster – my life is a mess – and my spirit is slowly dying.
I miss my husband desperately.
I doubt that I will be as strong as so many of you here are. My heart aches at the same time my admiration grows for you all.
My grievances will seem petty in comparison to some of your stories, but I sense that my last thread of hope may be dangling precariously from this site.
I have prayed to God for guidance and I believe He has sent me here to begin healing. Thank you all for sharing the good and the bad, and a very special thanks to you, Velvet, for your extraordinary mind and heart.
"… should I give up or should I just keep trying to run after you when there's nothing there?"  Adele

[annesingleton]

I am so sorry for what you are going through. I was married to my gambling husband for thirty years before I summoned the courage to separate from him and it took me another three years to realise I was not responsible for him. You are in an abusive relationship even though you don’t think you are. If you have children living with you they are also being abused and your responsibility is to them not your husband even though he makes you feel responsible for him. My three children have been badly affected by their father and I have a lot of guilt about it. Don’t forget that relationships are about being happy not miserable.– 04/05/2013 08:50:05: post edited by Velvet.

[annesingleton]

I’m really sorry hanging by a thread my last post sounded really harsh having read it back. None of this is your fault, don’t forget it took me thirty years to sort my problem out, when you’re in the middle of it it’s like dancing in shadows, you don’t know where you are or what to think. All I can say from my own experience is that you should try to be really strong, and bear in mind that generally gamblers are major manipulators. I wish you well and really hope that you will be ok.– 04/05/2013 09:19:54: post edited by Velvet.

[berber]

Hi Adele
I’ so glad that God has also led you to this website, just like me. You will learn so much about the addiction and gain power by this. Don’t think your problems are petty, your feelings are yours and you will not be judged. I am hopeful that my hb can control his addiction someday, but I also realize that (besides God) he can only help himself. Velvet’s message on yesterday/today/tomorrow makes so much sense. The sun is shining here today and I’ve decided to go outside and have a nice day. Wishing you a good weekend and take care.
X
Berber.

One life: live it.– 4-5-2013 07:04:26: post edited by Berber.

[velvet]

 
Hi Adele
I have done my homework this morning and now know that ‘Chasing Pavements’ is sung by Adele but your name is Adele to me now though, so I hope that is ok.
I have edited a couple of rep***s that you have had because it is not for any of us to tell another member what they should do.   Your story belongs solely to you, you are asking for support to get the next chapter right – the outcome of your book is not determined by anybody else.
Do you have family and friends who are aware of your worry?  Unfortunately unless people have lived with the addiction to gamble, their opinions can be very narrow and not supportive.   Personally I think it is best to tell others as a statement rather than asking for opinions. You are going to get your knowledge here and you can make your own informed decisions with that knowledge.   At no time will I tell you either to leave or to stay – everything will be in your hands.  
I am not sure whether you are saying you don’t love your husband and/or you don’t love the man who is gambling with your life.   You say you miss him desperately and I understand this because he is lost in addiction and you are walking through the fog of his addiction, without a map and cannot find him.
I don’t know how much you have read on the site and I don’t want to tell you lots of things you already know.   Does your husband accept he has a problem?
Although it is not recognized professionally the following is a coping method that many of us have used at the beginning of our recovery to help us cope.
Imagine your husband’s addiction as a slavering beast in the corner of the room.    As long as you keep your cool and don’t threaten that addiction it stays quiet, although it ever sleeps.
Your husband is controlled by that addiction but you are not.   When you threaten that addiction, it comes between you and controls the conversation or argument – how often have you found yourself in the middle of an argument without knowing how you got there – that is the addiction enjoyng confrontation that drives you further into confusion.   It is the master of threats and manipulation and you are not.   Once it is between you, you will only hear the addiction speak and because it only knows ***s and deceit, it will seek to make you feel blame and demoralize you.   When you speak the addiction distorts your words and your husband cannot comprehend your meaning.  
My CG explained it to me by saying that when I told him (for instance) that if he didn’t *** but lived honestly he would be happy, his addiction was distorting his mind convincing him that I was ***** because he truly be***ved that he was unlovable, worthless and a failure and did not deserve happiness – he was lost and fought back because he didn’t have any other coping mechanism apart from gambling.   The addiction is all about failure for the CG which has no love for the addict or those who love them.   However much your husband convinces you that he is in control – he is not.  
We do have Friends and Family groups where you will be welcome – the ***** are in the box at the top of this page on the right.   We can communicate in real time. Nothing said in that group appears on the forum. 
You are strong – you just don’t feel it.  
Please post soon, knowing you are among friends.
Velvet
 

[adele]

I have SO MUCH to say here with too little time at the moment. But I couldn’t read another post on my thread without at least a short post from me expressing my immense gratitude for this site and for your posts. 
Velvet – thank you so very much for your genuine interest and concern. I have a feeling that you are going to be that "one woman" – the catalyst – that will change my life. You are an angel on earth for "paying it forward" with your time, knowledge and humongous heart!
Before I leave to get ready for work, I have to tell you that I got a chuckle from the confusion over the quote from Adele (British ((ha ha)) singer/songwriter) that I put in my signature line. (Sorry, I have a bit of a wicked sense of humor – but it is NEVER malicious I promise!)  And, Velvet, I LOVE that my name is now Adele because of it.
Adele wrote the song "Chasing Pavements" after a breakup. She described the song as a hymn to lost love and regret. She said, "It is me being hopeful for a realtionship that’s very much over. The sort of realationship you hate when you’re in it, but miss when you’re not."  Later in the interview she said, "That song is about should I give up or should I just keep trying to run after you when there’s nothing there?", which is where the partial quote came from. 
As I read the article, it struck me that two completely different analogies could be drawn between her thoughts and the opposing perspectives of my CG and me. In futility he is chasing his bets trying to recover losses, and in desperation I continue to chase after the man I love and miss but is no longer there.
Ah! Such melodrama! I will write more this evening and fill in some of the blanks Velvet. It is difficult and feels strange to be preparing to "air all of my dirty laundry". But I know I must … and I will. 
Speaking of dirty laundry – I may have to dig in the hamper for something to wear today – ha ha. Such is my life …
Adele
    
  "… should I give up or should I just keep trying to run after you when there's nothing there?"  Adele

[velvet]

 
Hi Adele
I did Google for info on Chasing Pavements – I am not the brightest when it comes to modern pop music. I had at least heard of Adele – I have even seen pictures but since Roy Orbison I have been in oblivion when it comes to pop.  
Your post gave me some thoughts having read why you chose your username. At the moment you feel that there is ‘nothing there’ but if there was something there what would that mean to you?  
Not everybody’s relationship survives the addiction to gamble but I have found that those who have survived have some of the most successful relationships I know.   You don’t have to answer this but I wonder how old your husband is.   Sometimes it seems there has to be enough damage behind before the CG realises that it is their addiction that is hurting them and those around them.  
As I have said previously I cannot tell you what to do but I do know that chasing after a CG is as useless as them chasing after their debts – nothing changes until someone stops and I think the non-CG, with knowledge, can stop their old behaviour and confuse the addiction.. Both chases are futile but when this is realised and accepted, in my opinion, it time to do something different.   Running in the other direction is an option.   Learning about the addiction and how it works, – putting the non-CG in the driving seat of their life is another option – it was mine. 
For the past two years, I would imagine that you have had your husband’s addictive behaviour and gambling filling your mind and the more it fills, the less time there is for you.   By looking after yourself and putting your interests first you change the status quo – you are refusing to live with the addiction controlling you – instead of running after it you are confronting it without words.  
Your husband’s mind has been filling itself with addiction so it controls him.   It is important to realise that we cannot stop a CG gambling – they need the right treatment to help them tip some of that addiction out to leave room for decent thoughts and love.    We have had CGs change their lives on this site, there are dedicated counsellors, rehabs and GA.   CGs can and do help each other when they decide to dedicate their lives to being gamble free.   You felt guided here and you are understood – your husband might need similar guidance t where he is understood.   I have no idea why my CG decided, at the time he did, that he had had enough – I know we were estranged but he had made a rare phone call and I mentioned Gordon House – the rehab in the UK.   Two and half hours later he was applying and his roller coaster began to grind to a halt after 25 years.  
At the top of this page click on to ‘Resources’ and in ‘Location’ scroll down to ‘world’. Click ‘Gambling help’ and then ‘Search’.   Scroll down to ‘Gamblers anonymous – Twenty Questions’. Most compulsive gamblers will answer yes to at least seven of these questions.   In my opinion most members who have lived with the compulsion to gamble will also be able to answer yes to at leave seven of those questions.    Maybe you could print them off – maybe he will read them and realize he is not alone – I hope it will help him realize that you are seeking help and treating his addiction seriously even if he is not.   I think it is not good to thrust them on the CG but to leave them where he will see them – to thrust them is to confront and the addiction will take control.
Hope some of this helps. Ask any questions you like and I will do my best.
Velvet
 

[adele]

Velvet – I have just popped on here – as I do so often since finding this site on May 1st – just to see if you or anyone else has posted since I last looked – selfishly I think, anxious to see.
 My jaw dropped and just stayed dropped as I read your words. It is uncanny to me how you can be so spot on with so little information about me. I feel like Ell when she says things "click" in my head as I read your words.
I began writing my story last night fully intending to post it, but it got longer and longer and jumbled and convoluted – and it is not my nature to post such a mess. I am sending this one tho without reading it and editing it 20 *****, because I want to thank you, thank you, thank you for "walking with me" – even tho it must feel like you’re having to pull me along right now.
And I want to say to annesingleton – thank you for your immediate post on my introduction thread. It seems my post struck a chord with you – the length of our marriages?, similar experiences?, … something. I know and appreciate that you do not want me – or anyone else – to go through what you and your family have been through. I hope you will post again and do not be concerned that I will think you are harsh – I UNDERSTAND harsh feelings, believe me! And Velvet will edit anything she thinks may not be particularly helpful – I’m sure I’ll get edited too… lol. Please post tho Anne. I can’t offer advice yet, but I can lend an ear – and I know I can relate.
To Berber – you were so sweet to post your positive words of encouragement when you are going thru this agony yourself. Thank you! I read your profile and your story – you are so young – And with a baby! I will pray for you and your family that God will guide your hearts and minds to be rid of this beast. I’m just going to send this now – warts and all…
Adele
(ok – I edited once – but it was all bunched up .. lol)
(ok ok, edited twice ‘cos it didn’t work from my iPad – can’t help myself – ha)
"… should I give up or should I just keep trying to run after you when there’s nothing there?"  Adele
— 5/5/2013 5:13:14 PM: post edited by chasing pavements.– 5/5/2013 5:27:55 PM: post edited by chasing pavements.

[nomore 56]

Hi Adele, I know the song very well and my take on it whenever I hear it is “why waste your time, girl when you KNOW it is over”. Oh the wisdom I developed after the fact! lol. You seem pretty strong to me and I love your sense of humor! Just like there is a pattern when it comes to cgs and their behavior, there is a pattern to us as spouses/families/friends. I know very well what you are talking about. Gambling is like a cancer of the soul, it eats you from the inside out, everybody involved is sick. The outside, like your house and the laundry basket seems to reflect the chaos of emotions and thoughts on the inside. At least that’s how it was for me and still is because of what happened in my life. But I firmly believe that we get stronger once we have reached our own personal rock bottom. When we reach the point of no return and decide that something has to change. First of all we have to change because we cannot change our gambler. My hb was like an empty s****, possessed by his need to gamble. I didn’t know him anymore. Before we can make any kind of decision about the relationship I think we need to take an inventory of ourselves and our lives. I spend many hours thinking what it would be like if my hb was NOT gambling. Would we be alright? Do you have any other support besides this site? Any family or friends you can trust and talk to? Being utterly alone in this is the worst of all imho. The addiction is convoluting our minds as well as the mind of the cg. Thats the MO necessary to stay alive and well. It is very important for you to get well yourself and not to worry about your hb. The addiction is his and his only to take care of, meaning to start conquering it. If he sees the need. Wash your clothes, all of them and wear something really nice to work, lol. That’s a start. Secure your finances and look for support wherever you can. I, too spent many yrs in desperation. Crying, begging, yelling, angry and totally helpless and powerless. Until I decided one day that it was enough and come **** or high water, it was going to change. I was going to change. The days and weeks until my hb went to his final and successful inpatient treatment were the first once I was at peace. Even though it all didn’t work out the way I hoped it would (only the recovery is still working) I still cherish this time. Your are stronger than you think, girl. Funny though, I also process a lot with music. There was youtube with all the nice songs, my favorite one being “bridge over troubled waters” (yes, I am THAT old) and “House of the rising sun”, which was always on the radio all of a sudden when my hb was in prison. Go figure….

[adele]

— 5/6/2013 8:51:46 AM: post edited by chasing pavements.

[adele]

Dear NoMore – I appreciate you sharing, and your encouragement. You’re right, I am actually a very strong woman – usually – and feeling increasingly vulnerable and weak these last few years is maddening to me!
I have struggled with my own demon for many years – Depression (ugh) – so the emotional and visible chaos of my life is not really new to me, just different and compounded. I know in my heart this has been a contributing factor in my husband’s demise.
I like what you say about "taking an inventory  of ourselves" before making a decision about a relationship with a CG. That clicks with me, and I think that will be my initial approach to begin taking better care of myself. Thank you for that clarity.
I am feeling stronger with the knowledge and encouragement I have been blessed to receive from this site. Thank you, thank you, thank you all.
I’m still not in the **** to do the laundry, but I just might go out and buy me some skinny jeans and high heels! ha ha
(Be very glad you can’t see that visual …)
Girl – I’m so sorry for what you’ve been thru.  I am especially sorry your marriage didn’t work out the way you hoped. May I ask – and I apologize if this is too personal:  Was it because it was too difficult for you to believe the recovery would last?  Was he – or you – a different person after the recovery?   Please just ignore these questions if I’ve treaded on raw emotions.
Oh! By the way – I am THAT OLD TOO. So I say to you:
 Just sail on Silver Girl …  You no longer spend your life in sin and misery!!
Adele"… should I give up or should I just keep trying to run after you when there's nothing there?"  Adele

[nomore 56]

Hi Adele, I can see your strength in you posts even though you are at a bad place right now. I struggled with depression actually for most of my marriage and didn’t realize why. My hb was already gambling when we met and had been since he was a teenager. I had no clue and nobody thought it would be necessary to tell me. Of course I knew nothing about gambling addiction and nothing about the signs and symptoms. Like every cg, my hb was a pathological ****, not only when it came to money and gambling. So my marriage crumbled from the very beginning. You can read the convoluted story in my first posts. I am originally from Germany and after we moved here in 2000 my hb relapsed after almost 11 yrs. He took us down fast, everything was gone. The savings, my daughter’s college fund, our complete retirement, the cars and ultimately our first and only own home. He embezzled money at his federal job and went to prison for a year. That is why my marriage did not survive. Too much hurt, pain and damage. My depression worsened over the yrs a great deal and I developed an off-the-charts anxiety as well. It looks like you are not that far down the road, which is a good reason for you to have some hope. You also seem to have a pretty clear head and that is to your advantage. You might want to think about boundaries, how much will be too much for you? You deserve to be happy and at peace and that should be your absolute priority. Don’t give the addiction power over you. I’m a rather factual person so what I would have wished I had done is very simple. Drawn a line that my hb knew he shouldn’t cross. Never threaten something I was not prepared to go through with. Looked for support, like GamAnon way earlier. Educated myself re legal issues in this state (WA) and most of all, protect my finances better. At the end, all of this would not have helped my marriage but would have put my daughter and myself in a better position. My depression had a name, my hb’s. He is in recovery now for over 3 yrs and is a changed man altogether. We are still married for financial reasons but don’t live together. We have become something like friends out of necessity. Ha, I should take my story to Dr. Phil and see what he has to say…lol. Go buy the skinny jeans and the heels and walk proud with your head held high. Myself, I prefer the good old relaxed fit and some sketchers, the fancy days are over, age takes its’ toll on me. I can detect some ***** in you, girl. Go dig it out and show the addiction that you will NOT surrender. I know a lot of people who’s marriage has survived and is now even better, if different even if mine did not. Go for it!!!

[adele]

This Is Actually My Story

OK – here’s at least part of my story. Most of it has been sitting on my laptop for 3 days now – not sure why I haven’t posted before now. It’s going to be very long, so I apologize for that…
 
I am 52, my CG husband is 61. We will be married 25 years in September. This is my first marriage and his fifth (long story). We don’t have children together, but his daughter was only 6 when we married and I love her as my own. She and her husband have blessed us with two beautiful granddaughters (1 and 3 years old) who have very nearly been the only true joy in my life for 2 years.
My husband began seriously gambling compulsively in June of 2011 when he took a job in a different state that has casinos. I had planned to move there when circumstances allowed (my elderly mother lived here at the time). Two months later I found credit card charges for cash he had gotten at the casinos – and it has been steeply downhill since then.
As one painful shock after another morphed in to my new reality, I could not make myself want to move up there with him. I think I didn’t want to live with a stranger … I’m not sure.   So I "dug in" here at home trying to maintain our mortgage, and we have basically lived separately since the birth of this "Slavering Beast". He usually comes home on his days off as far as I know.
Last summer he transferred back to Texas with his company in order to get away from the casinos. (We didn’t think we had any casinos in Texas.) The place where he works is still 6 hours from our home town, and on his very first trip down there he discovered a casino on an Indian Reservation about an hour from his office and the ‘man camp’ where he lives while he’s on the job. I was devastated! Of course he told me it was just a ***** little casino that was not worth the drive … *** *** ***!!
The last 2 years have been miserable and expensive, but April was really horrible! He is spiraling to the bottom completely out of control – In deeper debt with new payday loans – ***** to me about everything, not just the gambling – Complacent and detached in our marriage and his personal life.  He puts nearly all his energy and effort in to his job (thank God) and his addiction.
Velvet, I am really going to have to read and re-read those elusive words about Yesterday, Today and Tomorrow. As for Yesterday – I don’t have the time or energy to worry or even care about it, because – Today and Tomorrow(s) I am agonizing over whether or not to try and settle the latest payday loans that are due this week, and I need to decide if I am going to continue the payments on all the past loans. It’s that or let his credit tank out – which will also affect my credit. I mean seriously … how do I NOT worry about Tomorrow? One day at a time seems unattainable to me right now, but I will strive to embrace that mantra.
I run the gamut of emotions on a regular basis. I feel angry and outraged – then I feel guilty. I feel hopeless and paralyzed – then something motivates me. I get scared and insecure – then I muster up some temporary determination and resolve. At ***** I have worked very hard to be sympathetic and supportive,  then  BAM!!, I’m back to angry and outraged. Thus is the F&F Cycle I suppose. 
You are absolutely right Velvet – my mind is filled with his addiction and little else. Most of my effort has been directed at breaking HIS cycle. I constantly check his emails, checking accounts, retirement accounts, various web sites, etc, etc.  I pay $70 per month for a company called LifeLock  to alert me immediately if anyone (my own stinking husband for instance!) opens an account or takes out a loan using our identification.  I now have a mailbox with a lock on it because he has taken insurance checks, unsolicited credit cards and the like without my knowledge.  I put a lock on my home office so I can hide the valuables we have left because he has sold things from our home to feed his beast. I have a separate checking and savings account now – which we have NEVER done. To his credit he has never diverted his directly deposited paycheck. But I know that is a possibility in the future given his escalation.
In the drudgery of doing these things it has become difficult to feel kindly and supportive toward him.
The man I married was far from perfect (like me), but I felt he loved me, was faithful to me, and wanted only to take care of me and make me happy. However, I discovered very early in our marriage that he would *** to me about things that he felt embarrassed about or ashamed of. For instance, about 2 years into our marriage I learned about his first wife when I found a forgotten picture of their wedding. His whole family had kept this from me. And get this – twenty years later, I found out he had married this girl twice!
And his stupid **** … I have never been able to make him understand or care about how it makes me feel. Although he would promise to never again … blah blah blah … he just doesn’t get it, so it continues. Not obsessively, but any is too much for me. This has been an issue throughout our marriage. 
I feel like I’m making him out to be a wretched man when he really isn’t – or he wasn’t.  At least I don’t think he was. **** I don’t know anymore. Our family and friends adore him, and he has always been highly thought of and respected in his work environment.
He knows he has a problem, but he thinks calling it a disease is too easy a copout for him. He said he wished he’d never heard it referred to as a disease. He be***ves when and if we are living together again that he will be able to control his gambling behavior the same as when he quit chewing his nails and quit smoking. Since he thinks he knows the solution to the problem, he has made very little effort to get help. My husband is a very stubborn, thick headed man.
I have told him about this site, and he did some reading on it this weekend. He said he had gained some unexpected insight from what he’d read so far, and we even had a couple of brief but meaningful conversations. I want to be***ve that a little of his addiction was "tipped out" if only for a moment … but I don’t want to get my hopes up just yet.
Given the unresolved issues in our marriage, I struggle to have any hope that my husband possesses the strength, integrity and courage to dedicate his life to being gamble free. He asks for my patience but has yet to make a commitment to get help – even knowing the stakes.
It is painful for me to be considering divorce as an option, because I do love my husband very much and we have a lot of years invested. Everyone would be absolutely stunned if it comes to that except for our two best friends. They are aware of his addiction and are as supportive as they know how to be with both of us. My stepdaughter would be devastated though. She does not know of her father’s addiction, so part of me is terrified that I might lose my grandbabies and it would kill me.  And finally, it is unbearable for me to think about what might happen to my husband on the loose with this beast ….
There’s a voice inside me telling me to open my eyes and see that no matter what he says, he wants out this marriage to be free to do as he pleases. And yet, some***** I know he still loves me very much. And some***** I feel that there is still something there. That must be why I’m still hanging on … but just barely.
Velvet, I am so very glad that your son is in recovery. I cannot imagine how frightening this experience has been for you as a parent. Thinking of your perspective – I do understand "one day at a time". My prayers are with you. And I am grateful that you are our "Wounded Healer". 
Adele 
 
 
"… should I give up or should I just keep trying to run after you when there’s nothing there?"  Adele
— 5/9/2013 5:02:30 AM: post edited by chasing pavements.
— 6/14/2013 7:21:37 PM: post edited by adele.

[nomore 56]

Adele, oh girl, do I hear and feel you! You already did all the right things by protecting your money and having the credit monitored. Your story is very similar to mine and I don’t know about you but I did take what my hb did, how he behaved and what he said personal. Until I learned and understood that the cgs come in all shapes, ages and colors but the addiction and its’ nasty pattern is the same across the board. As to your (step) daughter, I understand that you are afraid of her reaction but as you said, you love her and have a long history with her. It might not be your place to tell her about her dad’s addiction and nobody can tell you what to do of course. Every situation is different and so are the people. One thing to keep in mind though is that cgs don’t know friends and family from enemies when it comes to getting a hold of money. When the well at home dries up, they usually turn to others to ask for funds or borrow some. My hb came up with the most outrageous explanations and family and friends fell for it. Or just pretended to believe his stories, who knows. You say that your hb lies not only about money and gambling. I also dealt with it for many yrs. My hb always avoided any kind of argument, confrontation, anything that he felt uncomfortable with. And mostly things that he hid for as long as possible because he didn’t like the reaction of others would he have told the truth. It was easier to be a master of avoidance and then deal with problems when everything was said and done. His dysfunctional family was just the same way. I am a firm believer in holistic treatment for any kind of addiction. The whole person has to be addressed, not only the gambling. My hb completed inpatient treatment 3 ***** and only the last time it really worked because he had to work on more issues than just the gambling. Which was only a symptom of everything that went wrong in his life.
Your hb does not like the term disease. I don’t really either. But was else to call it? Does he think he is just behaving badly because he chooses to gamble? And his statement that he will get “over” it once you are living together again is just a copout imho. It give him a reason, not you, just him. He gambles because of his current situation. Right, who would blame him….It buys him time to keep doing what he is doing and at the same time gives you hope that everything will be ok again. It does not matter where he lives, with you, in a state with our without “big” casinos. Once the addiction has a hold on him, it will continue to torture both of you. The up and downs of total devastation and some hopeful glimpses into the future are very common. That’s how the addiction works. To keep both of you in line so to speak. Anything that poses as a threat has to be removed, and you are a threat because you decided to fight it on your own terms. And you are fighting, that’s what your posts are saying. If you get well yourself, the addiction looses some of its’ grip. At least on you. Did you get the jeans and the heels yet???? 🙂

[velvet]

Dear Adele
It was great to see you in a group – it does go fast I know, but you did well.
I am struggling to find the time to keep up with all the posts at the moment – I hope I answered some of your concerns when I spoke to you.  
This is just to say I haven’t forgotten and I will go through all your points carefully hopefully before I take my break from Friday to Tuesday in Scotland.
Velvet
 

[adele]

Thanks Velvet – I know you are pulled in many directions. I am doing better than I was since I have immersed myself into this site, I just have a long ways to go still.  Hope you enjoy your visit in Scotland.
That first group thing kinda freaked me out a little… lol. It was a good workout for my brain and my fingers. After that baptism, I held my own fairly well yesterday in a community group session. I met 3 very nice people there, and it was most helpful, and enlightening. I plan to join in more often if I can figure out the ***** …
NoMore – I greatly appreciate your posts. You have a very good understanding of this addictive behavior and I have given your words a lot of thoughtful consideration. You’re right – our stories are similar. I find myself thinking and saying that more and more on here…
I’ve been thinking about my boundaries …  They’ve changed of course since I’ve come here.  I am considering paying off  2 payday loans this week that my husband took out last month. If I do, the boundary would be crossed if he ever took out another. Actually, I think that might the boundary whether or not I pay off those loans. 
I have been so  very angry and very harsh with him … and I’ve been as strict with our finances as I think is possible, yet he manages to find ways … It amazes me!  He’s not a manipulative man, not conniving in his nature, and he certainly is not creative  AT ALL … yet he finds ways.
In March he managed to *** out a line of credit on an account he opened secretly 2 years ago when this all started. I had confiscated his cards, he gave me the codes for the account, I closed everything but the account with a balance, and had been making payments on it for the last year and a half.   This was the second time he’s ***’ed it out by having them send him another card.
Then things basically just blew up last week … that final straw you know?   I got a call last Tuesday (4/30) from the ***** Department of one of my credit cards.  Someone had used a "Thank-you" card for several on-line purchases that morning and they called to confirm the legitimacy of the charges. I had no idea what a "Thank-you" card was, I’d never received it nor asked for it,  and the phone number for the charges was a non-working number.  Of course I’ve learned by now to immediately suspect my CG – so I called him. He hesitated for a moment, but confessed to using a card he had found in a stack of mail I had shoved into one of the spare bedrooms – intending to sort thru it eventually.    My mistake.   Online gambling of course –  which he only took up recently.  $1000 gone in a blink.
I demanded that he come home immediately – enough was enough – I was going to shut him down one way or the other. I told him whatever it took, to leave his work and come home – or don’t bother to ever come home again.  I meant it and he knew I did.
He came home Wednesday, and I didn’t really know what to say or what to do. It was so weird.  It was like "Hurry hurry hurry and get your ars home now… zoom!  OK I’m here …  Ok, good, sit down and shut up.   lol   There was just this silence between us – his was in shame, and mine was in defeat. I think that’s the best word to describe how I felt.
He did not say anything about all that had transpired the last few weeks, although he knew I was aware of it all. That’s how he is though, non-communicative, non-confrontational, unemotional.   I have tried in the past to get him to talk about issues between us, and he will literally sit there and say nothing.  I timed him once …  me "so what do you think about so and so …. tic toc, tic toc … 10 minutes with  NOT  A  WORD.  He waits for me to drag things out of him.  Are these common traits in CGs?  I know Ell has described her husband as being this way, and so have you NoMore.  What’s up with that?!
Before he got home Wednesday night, I had done a lot of thinking and crying – sobbing actually – and I’m not really a  ‘sobber’. I put a call in to an attorney and then just sat there for hours, numb with the realization that my marriage and my life as I knew it was very likely about to come to an end. In my job, my hours are unstructured, so it is easy to procrastinate when things aren’t right on the inside.  I needed to go out and get some work done before he got home, but I couldn’t make myself do it. So I decided to do some research on my computer….  and that is when I found Gambling Therapy.org. 
Ell’s was the first thread I read.  I felt an immediate connection to her, and the beginnings of a sense of hope. I read and read and read for several days while my husband walked on eggshells. Finally, on Saturday I think, I began telling him about this site.  I told him some of the things I was learning.  By Saturday night my attitude toward him was kinder.  I told him thru tears how very sorry I was that he has been afflicted with this addiction.  I apologized for not being more understanding. I see so many things that I have done wrong in my ignorance of this addiction.  
It is a start for us … he has not yet made an appointment with a counselor (but he has the name of one there), or said that he would attend a GA meeting (they have GA where he’s at), but he has done some reading on this site, and he’s talking more honestly with me about his addiction.   Baby steps …
Holy cow!  I have rambled on and on again … so sorry.  This wasn’t even what I intended to post about …  Guess I needed to get that off my chest!
Adele
  
 "… should I give up or should I just keep trying to run after you when there's nothing there?"  Adele

[velvet]

Hi Adele
You did better than me in my first group and I didn’t try again for weeks – well done on coming in to Community Groups so quickly.   I know my rusty typing skills increased to a rate my teachers would never have be***ved me capable of!   Another good thing I have wrested from the addiction.
If you did things wrong you did it for the right reasons.  The addiction to gamble ****** on us not knowing how to cope with it – why should we?   We are bound up in honesty and trust with someone close to us.  
 
 
 
I don’t think you will – but please don’t apologise too much – you were being decent whereas he was not.
I am also not a person given to tears but I shed my fair share over this addiction and probably more as the realization of what it was all about, sank in.  I think maybe we allow ourselves the luxury of tears when the fighting without understand stops.  
The depths of his bad behaviour are not surprising.   I read your paragraph about your husband not being manipulative or conniving in nature because he is not creative enough and yet he found ways.   I t seems to be saying that he has diametrically different characteristics and this I understand and I be***ve is what those who are looking in, do not understand.   It is why the analogy of creating a separate entity for the addiction appeals t me as someone who loves a CG but is not recognised professionally.  Of course the addict has the addiction – they are not really separate.    There is no cure, our loved ones will always be CGs.  
I also know the ‘hurry up lets talk’situation and then the knowledge that you are defeated by ‘whatever’ it is that is going on.   It is symptomatic of the addiction that a CG will behave as though past behaviour has not happened and so they wait for the non-CG to speak.   As soon as a conversation is started the addiction is ready to blame the non-CG and *** about everything to protect itself.   My CG said that when he said ‘give me time to get my coat off before you start’ what he was really saying was ‘she is going to give me a hard time and I need my addiction to be ready’.
Your husband had nothing he could say, to assuage you – his addiction was manipulating the conversation, protecting itself, trying to weigh up how serious the attack was and how it could side-step the arguments – he was gambling that you would give up.  
Might I suggest you encourage him to contact the helpline as he appears to be getting something from this site, and/or start a thread of his own – if he is confident in his addiction, what has got to lose?    CGs know other CGs better than we ever will.   We have many good threads running – a recent one is by Uncontrolled called ‘The Journey Starts today’ and another is ‘Anniversay’ by Colin in Brum.  They are only two in many but both of them were in danger of losing everything, until Uncontrolled came to this site and Colin to GA.      
Your husband is a good age to weight up the wreckage he has left behind him.   You are regaining your confidence and self-esteem and you will not be part of the wreckage he has to deal with and that will support him tremendously.  
Without our recovery the CG has the greater struggle.   Our recoveries take a long time but only because I think we go on a learning curve that takes us into every part of our lives with what we learn.   I am not the person I was before the addiction came into my life; I am certainly not the blob I was when the addiction was in my life.
I will be back next week although I have a group tonight if you want to hone your typing skills again.  
I am not seeking to put a dampener on your hopes but talking about doing something and actually doing it is a big step, until he ‘does’ something rather than talking about it, keep every barrier up and trust nothing.   Trust take a long time – I cannot give you a length of time.   I trust my CG to look after his recovery – I can do no more.  all I can say is that he is doing well.  As far as this forum goes, however, I be***ve it is the fact that I am doing well that ****** and of course I can move mountains!
Velvet
You may never know what results come from your actions but if your nothing there will be no results – Mahatma Gandi
  
 
 
 

[nomore 56]

Hi Adele, just like Velvet said, the silence is very common. My hb was the same. He just reacted to me instead of really having a conversation. Disclosing as little as possible in re to the debts he had accumulated, just to test how much I actually knew. He also liked to beat himself up verbally so that I would not get too angry. Other ***** he got defensive and blamed me for what he had done. Addiction talk at its’ best. Why do you think about paying off the payday loans? They are his responsibility and he has to start owning his actions from here on. He can’t eat the cake and keep it. It would only prolong his behavior. I’m very glad for you that your card company called you, they do that nowadays for suspicious charges thank god. I put red flags on all my accounts way back when after my hb ***** some checks from me and successfully cashed one of them. It is very common practice for the banks not to pay much attention when it comes to married couples even though there is only one name on the account. Hide your mail where he can’t find it, no matter what it is. The addiction is much smarter than we think!
My hb never talked much about anything, like I said. Gambling is often an outlet for bottled up feelings that the cg feels uncomfortable sharing with others. A lot of cgs are escape gamblers and a good treatment plan addresses more than just the gambling. I don’t know what state you live in but most have a Council on problem gambling. Great resource for all sorts of info, incl. a list of GA and GamAnon meetings as well as gambling certified counselors. I agree with Velvet, having the intent to do something is great but he is just producing white noise until he really takes action. Here is an example of how the addiction tries to make you comply by given you the hope that the cg is finally willing to fight back. My hb had his disability benefits deposited into my account and after deducting his share for the household expenses I put the rest on a savings account for him for his personal *****. I left for Germany where I spent a month with my family. While I was gone, he changed it to an EBT card and went on a rampage at the casinos. I found out upon my return, duh. Then he disappeared for a week, hiding away at the mental ward of the VA hospital. While he was gone, I made the decision to not play the game anymore, no matter what would happen to me financially. Felt peaceful and free for once. So he came home and ranted and raved about how stupid he was and how he regretted it and on and on. I said nothing. Made some coffee, sat him down and told him that he could say his thing and I would say my thing and then we would be done. My thing was, the charade ends now. No more dancing around the fire. No more of anything. It’s either getting your own place or going into inpatient treatment. I’m done, can’t do anything else and that is that. About 2 months later he left for a 120 day inpatient program and came back a changed man. Not only not gambling but also willing and able to have a real conversation, to verbalize his feelings and most importantly, he finally understood what my daughter and I, his family and friends had gone through. He took responsibility for all his actions incl. the crime he committed.
See, I’m also very good at rambling, lol. My point is that there have to be serious consequences for a cg to feel the need to make changes. Kinda like starving the beast of addiction.
Take care of yourself first, addictions of any kind hate that….

[adele]

Velvet – I absolutely agree with the premise that this addiction creates a separate entity within one being – I have witnessed it personally and in reading the stories here.  And it is created without a tangible substance like alcohol or *****. Although I suppose money is the substance for CGs – consumed uncontrollably in massive quantities. 
**** THIS BEAST VELVET!  
**** IT TO ****!
 "… should I give up or should I just keep trying to run after you when there's nothing there?"  Adele

[velvet]

 
Hi Adele
Has anything new occurred to make you feel like writing as you have?  I am closing down now for a few days but I hope you will use the helpline and/or the other groups.  
I don’t think money is the substance – it is purely the tool, the means to the end.   I don’t think that non-CGs can understand it. 
Look after yourself
V
 

[adele]

Unfortunately yes V.
He’s off the radar this afternoon and I know too well what that means.
I am trying to hold on.
Adele
"… should I give up or should I just keep trying to run after you when there’s nothing there?"  Adele– 5/10/2013 3:10:33 PM: post edited by chasing pavements.

[berber]

Hi Adele,
Thanks for the Mojo! It has been well received. On top of that it gives me strength to know that you have read my thread and can relate. I love how you say "God doesn’t give us more than we can handle" – and it’s true. Look after yourself, like Velvet said. Treat yourself to something really nice!
Dear Adele, have a good weekend and hope to chat with you again soon.
XXX
B.
 

[vera]

Hi Adele!
Thanks for your prayers. Badly needed and much appreciated!
Hope you got through the weekend without too much trauma.
All I can say to you is that you are in the right place here in GT. As a CG, I know that there is NOTHING that anyone can do to stop a loved one gambling until he/she is ready to admit that they are powerless over their addiction and are ready to seek help themselves. During the "waiting period" a lot of destruction takes place and many people are affected.
Never give money to your CG. Never allow yourself to be manipulated or threatened by him. Always listen when he tries to explain his fears and when he looks for help but take his promises with a grain of salt.
CGs are Masters of our "trade" and we can fool others up to the white of their eye!
Action speaks louder than words! CGs are good with words but our action don’t always measure up to our spoken promises.
Keep the lines of comminication open. Gambling is a lonely disease and most CGs I know are scared stiff of what lies in store.
Keep posting! Keep praying!
God bless!

[adele]

Velvet,
Re your 5/24 post: You’re absolutely right about pressing my ***** on him and asking too many questions, and telling him I expect more of him – it is making perfect sense now because I’m realizing  these things are actually counter-productive. Being patient, practicing self-control (at least while I’m with him) and better understanding the roller coaster ride my CG is on is making a difference – at least with how I feel.
Is your husband aware that you are seeking help and that it does make a difference? 
My husband is very aware that I’m seeking help here – and I think I’ve made it clear that this is the most important thing going on in my life right now – my recovery and utilizing this site. I have encouraged him to start a thread, or use the helpline or groups. If he has (which I doubt) I don’t know about it. He said he had been reading here, so I asked him if he had seen my postings. He seemed a little surprised, and said he hadn’t – then I didn’t say anything else.  In a bit he asked me if I had used a name he would know, and I said no – then I didn’t say anything else. In a bit he asked me if I had put a story on there, and I said yes. I think I’m taking a chapter from Building Bridges’ book here – steeling myself – holding my tongue when I really want to “seize the opportunity” to launch in to a big conversation about what I think he should do.
Patience … not easy for me.    
That was all that was said – but the fact that he actually asked me questions about it is huge. He told me once that the F&F forum was more helpful to him than the CG forum. I thought that was interesting.  So, yes, I think it is making a difference for both of us.
Going to my CG friends Birthday Party on the coast:
Harry’s  advice to be wary was much appreciated – and heeded.  We had a great time, the margaritas were fabulous, my husband sang Karaoke, which shocked us all, and we avoided the subject of gambling completely – except one mention to me by my friend that no one knew of my husband’s addiction.
BB – I hope you have found your way to those moments of “normalcy”. The evening with our friends here at home, and the weekend trip to the birthday party were big breaths of fresh air for both of us. I won’t say it was easy to “chain the beast up” – there were many ***** I found myself caught up in thought while gazing across the water. But I think the “normalcy” has given my husband a bit of confidence, or hope … or something.
Taking my own inventory:
BB, I hope my post moved you in a positive direction. I know how much you love your husband and want him to overcome this thing. I have cried with you and wanted to give you a silent hug many *****.  I see you getting stronger with every post, and that has given me courage to find better ways to refuse this addiction.
I do have a very long (and very old) list Velvet. So I decided to apply both the puzzle analogy and the One Day At A Time theory to it. I will break that monster To Do List down in to manageable “pieces” that I can complete in “One Day”.  Thursday, I did all of my laundry, Friday I swept and mopped all of my floors. Two pieces done!  Time to get off my lazy butt.
No More, I’m not really doubting myself (any more than usual), and I don’t really blame myself for my husband’s gambling.  My post was, I think, the beginning of a cathartic journey for me – a journey that is going to either intertwine or become one with my recovery journey. I wonder if this would be helpful for you to do also?
Velvet, I do want to change my direction – for me, and for my husband. And I will greatly appreciate you continuing to be by my side. Thank you.
Adele
 — 6/9/2013 3:53:38 AM: post edited by adele.

[velvet]

Dear Adele
I will write to you tomorrow.
V

[Anonymous]

Adele,
I’m glad you are chipping away at your list. I am a huge lister myself and the feeling of accomplishment of crossing something off felt great. I used to use it as therapy from stressful unproductive days at work. I’m going to start putting listing to work again!
You did most definitely motivate me in a positive direction. It’s been a painful movement but I think I’m finally heading to where I need to be. I really enjoy reading your thread you do not hold anything back and that’s awesome and very brave. I also think it’s great your husband reads F&F. I do not know how my husband would react.
How wonderful to have a time of some kind of peace. Even if you know it’s temporary at least you had some quiet.

[velvet]

Hi Adele
I loved your post.  
How you feel is more important than anything.  All first F&F posts start with information on the CG but behind that CG and writing that post, is someone who has taken a metaphorical beating and ***** healing.  
Ban negative body language from your vocabulary. 
If you are concerned about being over-weight don’t become a slave to scales – if a weigh-in makes you feel a failure all day – break the habit.   Live in the present – today is the only day that ******.   Don’t buy jeans or dresses that will fit you when you lose weight but wear clothes that you love and fit you now.
You deserve respect and kindness.   Don’t use food as an excuse or exercise as a punishment.   Look after yourself.  I am sure you have a captivating smile that has not been seen nearly enough recently – dig it out – try it in the mirror, I am sure it is amazing.
Stick post-its on your mirror that will give you a boost – who else will greet your every morning with ‘smile you are wonderful’.   Remind yourself daily of how good life can be.
Find new focuses – worrying about CGs all the time leads to self-destructive feelings so getting busy as you have started doing is good.    Pursue interests that make you feel better.   The more interesting you feel the more attractive you are to others.  
You can’t always control what happens to you but you can control how your react.   Patience is not easy for me either but sometimes it is necessary.  Allow time for others to change and adjust to the new you.   Seize opportunities and focus on daily pleasures.  
Avoid making a catastrophe out of something that is not the end of the world.   If something worries you, step back and ask yourself if it will matter in a few months time and write it on here.   Get it out of your head where it will fester if it left.
Make all your positive changes last and last but not least – keep posting.   What did you achieve today?
Velvet
 

[adele]

Well, I am struggling again …
My husband had to work this weekend so we have only spoken on the phone this last week.
Trying something different:
When he left to go back to work after our trip, we decided he would take $100 instead of the $10 or $20 I usually give him (because he would be gone longer this time),  that he would keep receipts,  and I told him if he slipped to just tell me about it and we would get through it.  He was surprised at my attitude and said he would tell me if he slipped.
When we talk on the phone, he does not say anything to me about whether he has gambled or not,  or if he has been tempted:   It is just understood that he is trying hard not to gamble because that is what he told me he could do right now – so I have accepted that … for now.
The bank stuff:
 The bank account he opened to put the last chunk of money in that he borrowed has been drafted by all of his previous debtors for the month. It’s crazy – he’s using borrowed money to make payments on money he’s borrowed, with no plan for when that money runs out.  Nothing is being deposited.
Yesterday I got a notification text from his bank saying that access to the account had been blocked – no reason was given, so I texted my husband about it.  He said he had tried to log on to check the balance,  which makes no sense,  because he is notified every day of the balance and for any transactions on the account the same as I am. I pointed this out and he said he was trying to see who all had been paid so far, and I think I believe that.
He called the bank and got access to the account reestablished. Then the next thing I know, I get another text notification from the bank for a $30 check paid to some new payday loan company.
He says it absolutely is not legitimate – that I know about every loan he has taken out. The check appears to be computer generated somehow (not handwritten) so there is a good chance that it is indeed **********. There was another draft on his account week before last that we have disputed, so the bank has credited his account while they research it.
See,  these are the kinds of problems he has created by frantically looking for ways to get money online and elsewhere:  Somewhere along the way he has provided too much information to the wrong people and now they have managed to get access to his account.      UGH !!!!
The Blob:
I was worthless yesterday, even before I started dealing with all the stuff on the account.   It was as if I knew something was coming … like it was time in the cycle for something to happen. I have got to shake this off!  
His new work schedule provides opportunities to gamble:
Here’s the thing:  Everything this last week and the upcoming week has been and will be a test of my husband’s resolve not to gamble. He has been working nights in the field covering for a supervisor who is on vacation – so he did not come home this last weekend.   After tonight he will go back in to the office for a few days (his normal job),  come home this weekend,  then next week he will be taking on a new long-term/temporary position supervising a group of 3 crews that work together to cover a 24 hour work day – so his work schedule will be whatever he determines it ***** to be to keep these 3 crews running smoothly. He is experienced, dependable and a good supervisor – which is why they can put him wherever they need him.
The good things about this are he will work 10 days then come home for 5 days, and it is a boost to his ego.
 The problem is … schedule changes have always provided him opportunities to gamble;  this is when he has gotten in to the most trouble.  He either runs to the casino when he has down time and is bored,  or he goes by the casino on his way home or back to work – because I have no idea what his schedule is and would not know if he was leaving too early to go back to work or getting in too late when he comes home for his days off.
I think I believe him:
This is all just one big rant – possibly all for naught – because when he called last night I finally just asked him how he was doing on his gambling.  He said he had not gambled and really had been too tired to even be tempted. He said he still had about $60 and had only forgotten a couple of receipts. And he said he was anxious to come home this weekend and see me.  Amazingly, I think for the most part I believe him on everything.   
So when he texted me that the $30 draft was not legit, after awhile I texted him back and said “for what it’s worth I believe you”. He either had gone to sleep or it had no impact on him because he hasn’t responded.
The Blob again:
Oh well …  this rant is over – I have gotten it out of my head V – no more festering.  If I don’t get up from here right now,  today will be another Blob Day like yesterday and so many others.
I will try the sticky note thing Velvet – I actually know someone who puts sticky notes on the mirror for her husband and he loves it.
I want to post on your thread BB, thank you for posting on mine –  and on yours Ell.  I have things I want to say to you both about your last posts –  and I will do so when I’m in a little better frame of mind.  I know you both understand…
And No More – I hope as you indicated that you are considering what recovery might look like for you, and that you plan to post it on your thread. I am thinking about you and watching for you here.
Adele
 "… should I give up or should I just keep trying to run after you when there's nothing there?"  Adele

[adele]

Well, ****!!
It’s a good thing I said I believed him “for the most part” in my last post …  I remember now he hesitated just a beat before he told me he had not gambled the other day.
Does anyone know of an Android phone application on the order of Betfilter that blocks online gambling sites?
I saw a new email from a gambling site so I decided to call him right then. The whole conversation was calm – I was not demanding or outwardly angry – I just asked him to please be honest so we could work thru it … so he admitted he had been using his phone to gamble online –  and I am thankful for that, but …
**** **** **** !!!
It took everything in me to keep from telling him how sick I am of the lies and how this has knocked me to my knees again.  I’m sure I didn’t handle it just right, but I got him to talk about it a little and this is basically what he told me:
He said he was really trying to make himself stop gambling – that it had been hard, but he insisted that he had not been to the casino.
He said he hasn’t gambled on his phone for money in 2 or 3 days, but he has played for points for free. I asked him where he got the money.  He said he’d gotten another debit card on the account he has in Oklahoma and has maxed out the credit card and loan accounts on it again.  I thought he had closed the account to charges, but apparently not. I think I may ask him to send this bank a letter telling them he has problem, requesting that they block him from using the account for anything other than paying the loan balances – then have him copy it to me.
I asked him if he got the same high from playing for points instead of money. He said sort of – that when he wins, he thinks “man I wish I’d had real money on that spin”.  So I asked him how it made him feel when he lost playing just for points.  He got a little animated and said that when he loses it really hits him that he’s very glad he didn’t have real money on it – almost like he felt this was helping him to stop gambling.  ????
After talking about his gambling online with his cell phone, he told me again that he felt like he was making progress even though I might not see it or believe it. I told him that I actually do recognize that he is making an effort to stop gambling, but only because I am working on my recovery and understand better how hard it is for him to do so. I think I may email him and tell him that   had I not reached out for help we would very likely be in the middle of divorce proceedings –  and then ask him to consider where we might be if he had already reached out for help.
 Then I reminded him that I would not put money in his account to pay on his debts until and unless he had stopped gambling and was getting help with his addiction – which he still has not done. .  He told me he has been trying really hard to resist,  and that he wants us to do something special for our 25th anniversary in September – and that’s what is motivating him right now to resist.   This is the first time he’s said anything to me about our anniversary.  I don’t know if his motivation is based on hoping we are still together in September,  hoping my feelings will be softened towards him by then so we can really celebrate,   or if he just means so we will maybe have the money to go somewhere.   I don’t know …
I wish I could be excited about our anniversary and wanted to plan something, but right now I can’t help but think about how much more he might gamble between now and then, and that anything we spend on a trip would be better spent on his debts.  Hopefully we will have a good weekend and talk about it some more.
Lord please help us …
Adele
 "… should I give up or should I just keep trying to run after you when there's nothing there?"  Adele

[velvet]

Dear Adele
Gambling for points is still gambling.   He is making ‘mind bets’.   Some newly abstinent gamblers say that what they are keeping track of is what abstinence has saved or cost them.   Mind bets are not an uncommon way to remain in action.  However the gambler may start to get ‘juiced’ and be unable to shake off the excitement.  
I have asked about blockers for android phones before and I think the answer was there was nothing on the market but I will check again.   Does he have to have an android phone?   It would be good if you could encourage him to change his phone to a basic model – in the interests of his recovery.
CGs do appreciate the barriers when they cannot react to triggers because it gives them time to think – not possessing a phone on which he can gamble seems to me to be an excellent barrier.  It is not treating him like a child – it is assisting him in his quest for the recovery he says he wants.
 
Dear Adele – you want to believe so much but I would be failing you if I did not tell you to strengthen you barriers.   I’m afraid it is too early to believe him so readily and he possibly did not respond to your text saying you believed him because it was all he wanted to hear.
I know you know it but I will say it anyway – he is a CG and CGs tell lies and manipulate.  Accepting that our loves ones are CGs is harder than we realise at first.  We want to save and really understanding that we cannot is very difficult.
Looking after you today is still more important than anything.   At the moment it appears that you are working harder at his recovery than he is.   I think you did well getting him to admit he had gambled but I think it would be good if you reinforce your willingness to help him only if he helps himself – provided you can say it and mean it.
You are doing well with your posts – you are getting things down and that will help you when you look back. 
I will write again tomorrow but I wanted to get these thoughts down tonight.  They have come out a bit blunt but they are as always accompanied with your interests at heart.
Velvet
 
 
 
 
 

[jenny46]

Dear Adele
I see you doing the hard work here to the point where you can lose sight of who you are, as you creep around on eggshells trying to make it right or guarding what you say to him about his behavior or his addiction. How convenient for his addiction to have someone so worn down by it but also desperate for the well being and recovery of that person. Too me that is a powerful combination for the addiction to use to its own devices. It knows you love him, it knows you believe that recovery is possible, it knows your knackered and it probably knows that at ***** your self esteem is at rockbottom – it thinks it knows you and your reactions which is why he is able to spin the most remarkable lies!! I think possibly I see it like this because I have heard very similar on several occaisions to the point they actually become a little predictable but often impossible to see because of all of the above.
I had a gambling conversation with my partner last night and we do have several these days although brief it went something like this he asked me "do you believe you can be one step ahead of this addiction?" to which I replied "No and I would never try to do it again" he said "Good I hoped you would say that" meaning that he knows that I have learned to look after me not that he was hoping to be able to pull a stunt !! I then said to him "Do you believe that if I find out that you have gambled that you will be spending another night under my roof ? " to which he replied "absolutely not" What the conversation showed to me was that through his recovery and mine has grown a mutual respect, I respect the power and capabilities of his addiction and he respects my right not to put up with it.
I used to agonise over the right way to say things or mention the G word and I agree there are more positive ways to put things across than how I often do but if he is telling you lies and has told so many in the past he has a bit of a cheek asking you if you believe him ! in my oppinion. I think my partner now in recovery would tell me I was actually a bit silly if i were to believe everything he said and would not have that expectation.
I guess I am trying to say don’t let his addiction compromise who you are, if you don’t believe him tell him if you feel you can, that no actually you don’t and why would you. Let him wriggle around on his own hook for a while. As V has said strengthen your barriers and look after you. Your feelings are more important than comfort for the addiction.
Words are just exactly that and quite unreliable, if he is serious about his recovery he should be showing a bit more action, taking a bit of the responsibility if not all of it. You cannot shoulder it all Adele or it will bring you down. When I read your posts I don’t see a ‘blob’ I see woman who is doing the best that she can under massive adversity. I see a woman who doesn’t yet realise her own strength but will at some point make it work for her.
You believe in him but nows the time to believe in you
Jenny x
 We see things not as they are, but through how we are today x

[adele]

I am so confused.
Friday night’s conversation:
Friday night I said all the wrong things for all the wrong reasons.  I don’t know exactly how it happened,  but within an hour of my husband getting home I was questioning him about how he got another card to his old bank account (turns out he had kept a credit card this whole time “just in case”),    and what went thru his head when he **** to me on Monday night saying that he hadn’t gambled at all (when I **** it out of him on Thursday that he had been gambling online on his phone),    and when he has told me these last few weeks that he is trying very hard to stop –  exactly what is it he thinks he has been doing towards stopping his gambling, does he have a plan?  (he says I’m trying to stop, that’s what I’m doing  – I say but you haven’t! – he says my plan is to just stop – I say how?! –  he says I just have to stop – I say but you haven’t! – he says then I guess I’m not doing anything to stop).  I told him I felt like I was the only one working on his recovery.  
It wasn’t a fight – we don’t ever really do that.  He’s like Harry; he hates conflict and will avoid it at all costs, so he just usually resigns – which is pretty much what he did Friday night.  Unfortunately he was fairly dejected by the time I was done with him.
Thursday afternoon’s conversation:
What’s crazy is that Thursday afternoon when I called him about the phone gambling and he admitted it, I remained positive and supportive – somewhat disingenuous to what I really felt, but it seemed to allow him to be more honest with me.  In this conversation I reminded him that I had asked him again to please just tell me if he slipped – that the ***** was the worst.  He said it was easier to be more honest with me since I was being “nicer” to him.  I asked him to explain what he meant by me being “nice” and how he thought I was different now.
It’s very hard for my husband to express how he feels about anything,  but he did a good job of describing what I think are classic CG reactions.  He said when I was yelling at him (which I don’t do) or telling him how disappointed I was in him, it would “ruffle his feathers” and get him riled up. Afterwards all he could think about was how I was always putting him down.  He said then it was like he would gamble just to show me he could do what he wanted to do and that he would show me he could win all the money back and pay off his debts.  He said when I was constantly on him about his gambling day after day, he got so he didn’t even want to call me – and he didn’t for a long time.
He was very forthcoming about how I made him feel, but he also wanted to make sure I understood that he realized I had every right to say the things I said to him.
 He went on to say that now I seem to have a good positive attitude toward him, not constantly asking him about it and telling him what to do,  and it gives him a better attitude.  He told me he knew it hadn’t been easy for me to be that way. 
This is when I told him that the only reason I was able to handle it this way is because I came to this site and I’ve learned a lot about his addiction and how to put up barriers:  That I am trying to learn how to take care of myself so I can support him in his recovery.  I told him straight out that if I had not found this sight,  we would probably be in the middle of divorce proceedings.  Then I asked him to imagine where we might be if he was getting help.
It was a mostly positive conversation, but I didn’t know how to feel about him ***** to me and gambling again.
You are so right Velvet – I do so desperately want to believe  – to believe that he really does want to stop gambling and that our marriage is more important to him than his gambling.  And I am shocked sometimes at how my own attitude can swing from negative to positive to negative to positive ….
I’m sending mixed messages – and feeling mixed emotions.
Thursday night after this conversation and during the day on Friday before he came home I kept thinking about it and trying to figure out how I was going to deal with this – because on the one hand he did finally confess and actually opened up a little communicating  with me about his “stinking thinking”.   I think that’s progress – right? 
But – at the same time I’m thinking ****! I just basically accepted that he **** to me and gambled again, and he still hasn’t gotten help.   So what are the consequences for him;  the fact that I had a minor melt down on him Friday night when he was expecting to come home to the “nice” me?   
I have told him that I will support his recovery but I won’t support his addiction.   The problem is I don’t think I know the difference sometimes. 
Am I supporting his addiction by accepting the lies and the gambling and continuing to “be nice”?    Am I not being supportive of his recovery by pointing out to him that what he is calling “doing better” and “trying to stop” is really just still gambling and *****?   I don’t know if I will ever be able to have the conversation you had with your husband Jenny,  so how do I refuse to live with the addiction?
I think I have probably caused a setback for him with my wish-wash. 
He says he understands my anger, but I know he really doesn’t – he just thinks I feel he has screwed up again and he probably thinks I expect the worst from him – and part of me does! This is just TOO CONFUSING.
I’ve got to get my head on straight because I only have part of tomorrow to talk to him and try to get this thing on track before he leaves for another 10 days of working his new flexible (and dangerous) schedule.  As Harry described,  I would like for us to be able to discuss what the trigger is and try to figure out a better coping mechanism:   Let this become a valuable lesson rather than another excuse for him to gamble.
Adele
 "… should I give up or should I just keep trying to run after you when there's nothing there?"  Adele

[velvet]

Hi Adele
I promised I would reply to your post today. 
I have read and re-read your post and I have made a start on a reply but there is a lot in your words and I want to do them justice.    
Swinging from negative to positive is quite natural for anyone seeking to understand an addiction they do not own.
Never mind sending mixed messages – you are getting mixed messages and that is an active addition in full flood. 
I am going to send this because I said I would reply today.   I have people coming for dinner and I don’t know when they will leave.
I wanted you to know that you are in my thoughts and there is lots to say.
I will write fully as soon as I am free
V
 

[Anonymous]

Adele,
One of the worst feelings in the world is knowing you can’t believe a word that comes out of your spouses mouth and you can’t. You inspired me to take a look at what I was doing to myself. And it wasn’t pretty. I was not proud of who I saw, not only because of the way I had physically let myself go, but intellectually and emotionally as well. I knew I could not keep tearing myself apart trying to keep him from gambling and playing detective. It’s hard to stop when that’s what I have been doing for a while. But if I don’t stop I will totally loose myself.
So I am truly embracing step 1 of our 12 step program. I am not responsible for his gambling, I can’t control it and I can’t stop it. That is verrrry hard to do. But I am already feeling more positive. Will my cg gamble again, more than likely. Will I expend gobs of my energy to figure out what he has already done? No. I have protected myself financially and ultimately my CG. If he really wants to gamble can he get money? Yes. I hope though by the time he manages to find cash he has had enough time to ask himself if it’s worth it and tells himself no. That’s in his hands not mine.
But I am hoping that as he sees me putting my energy into positive efforts he will eventually want the same. And I pray that the desire to be in control of a positive life becomes greater than the willingness to just exist in a negative one. But that shift in desires has to come from him….not me. Not the non-cg.

I have to say my heart breaks watching his internal struggles and I can see the pain in him. It makes it hard to keep my hands to myself and not try to fix it. I can’t fix my CG and you can’t fix your’s. We can’t make this easier for them. We can’t accept responsibility for their gambling. We can’t trail after them waiting for them to fall and then try to pick them back up.
It took me a solid few weeks before I understood what Velvet has been trying to tell me and it’s just that….we can’t fix the CG only ourselves.
I know my CG has noticed my shift in priorities. I’m trying to stay the course.
But I think before you will be able to take care of you and begin your recovery, you need to know your CG’s gambling is not your problem to fix it’s his. You can’t take care of him and you can’t make him better….he has to do that. You can set boundaries for him based upon what you need and you can be a listening ear.
What you are doing I did. That is the only reason I feel I can speak so bluntly. I am keeping you in my thoughts.
BB

[twilight16]

Hi Adele,
I can see why you are confused as this addiction is always sending mixed message. It knows when to be nice, it knows how to twist situations in its favor and it knows how to be mean as he**. One can never trust it, but of course it is within the one we love, but, still this is not an excuse.
You see it is your husband that has chosen to gamble. He is the one not the addiction. The addiction cannot operate alone. It can whisper sweet nothings in his ear, but it cannot physically make him gamble. Each cg is it’s lifesource and unfortunately, we become one as well when we enable and tolerate gambling.
Continue to concentrate on your recovery, as you are doing well. It is important for you to let your husband take responsibility in his recovery. He has got to want it more than anything for it to work.
XXXTwilight(I believe we get our greatest strength from the hardest obstacles)

[velvet]

Dear Adele
What sort of threads would you like to read?   I will point you to a couple and see it they are the sort that help.   Like so many others Meglee had more than one thread but she came to this site having moved on in a different way to me – one thread was ‘Finding Peace’.  There is  ‘Movedon’ who posted the following 
 

Hi to all, a few people asked me to put this letter for all to read – I have found it really helpful on many many occasions & I hope it will help any of you who read it too.
ENOUGH

A time comes in your life when you finally get it… When in the midst of all your fears and insanity you stop dead in your tracks and somewhere the voice inside your head cries out – ENOUGH!

Enough fighting and crying or struggling to hold on. And, like a child quieting down after a blind tantrum, your sobs begin to subside, you shudder once or twice, you blink back your tears and through a mantle of wet lashes you begin to look at the world through new eyes.
This is your awakening.

You realize that it’s time to stop hoping and waiting for something to change or for happiness, safety and security to come galloping over the next horizon. You come to terms with the fact that he is not Prince Charming and you are not Cinderella and that in the real world there aren’t always fairytale endings (or beginnings for that matter) and that any guarantee of "happily ever after" must begin with you and in the process a sense of serenity is born of acceptance.

You awaken to the fact that you are not perfect and that not everyone will always love, appreciate or approve of who or what you are… and that’s OK.
(They are entitled to their own views and opinions.) And you learn the importance of loving and championing yourself and in the process a sense of new found confidence is born of self-approval.

You stop ******** and blaming other people for the things they did to you (or didn’t do for you) and you learn that the only thing you can really ***** on is the unexpected.
You learn that people don’t always say what they mean or mean what they say and that not everyone will always be there for you and that it’s not always about you. So, you learn to stand on your own and to take care of yourself and in the process a sense of safety & security is born of self-reliance.

You stop judging and pointing fingers and you begin to accept people as they are and to overlook their shortcomings and human frailties and in the process a sense of peace & contentment is born of forgiveness.
You realize that much of the way you view yourself, and the world around you, is as a result of all the messages and opinions that have been ingrained into your psyche. And you begin to sift through all the **** you’ve been fed about how you should behave, how you should look and how much you should weigh, what you should wear and where you should shop and what you should drive, how and where you should live, and what you should do for a living, who you should sleep with, who you should marry and what you should expect of a marriage, the importance of having and raising children or what you owe your parents.

You learn to open up to new worlds and different points of view. And you begin reassessing and redefining who you are what you really stand for. You learn the difference between wanting and needing and you begin to discard the doctrines and values you’ve outgrown, or should never have bought into to begin with and in the process you learn to go with your instincts. You learn that it is truly in giving that we receive. And that there is power and glory in creating and contributing and you stop manouvering through life
merely as a "consumer" looking for your next fix. You learn that principles such as honesty and integrity are not the outdated ideals of a bygone era but the mortar that holds together the foundation upon which you must build a life.

You learn that you don’t know everything, it’s not your job to save the world and that you can’t teach a pig to sing. You learn to distinguish between guilt and responsibility and the importance of setting boundaries and learning to say NO. You learn that the only cross to bear is the one you choose to carry and that martyrs get burned at the stake. Then you learn about love. Romantic love and familial love. How to love, how much to give in love, when to stop giving and when to walk away. You learn not to project your ***** or your feelings onto a relationship.

You learn that you will not be, more beautiful, more intelligent, more lovable or important because of the man on your arm or the child that bears your name. You learn to look at relationships as they really are and not as you would have them be. You stop trying to control people, situations and outcomes. You learn that just as people grow and change, so it is with love…. and you learn that you don’t have the right to demand love on your terms… just to make you happy. And, you learn that alone does not mean lonely…

You look in the mirror and come to terms with the fact that you will never be a size 5 or a perfect 10 and you stop trying to compete with the image inside your head and agonizing over how you "stack up."

You also stop working so hard at putting your feelings aside, smoothing things over and ignoring your *****. You learn that feelings of entitlement are perfectly OK…. and that it is your right to want things and to ask for the things that you want…and that sometimes it is necessary to make demands.

You come to the realization that you deserve to be treated with love, kindness, sensitivity and respect and you won’t settle for less. And, you allow only the hands of a lover who cherishes you to glorify you with his touch… and in the process you internalize the meaning of self-respect.

And you learn that your body really is your temple. And you begin to care for it and treat it with respect. You begin eating a balanced diet, drinking more water and taking more time to exercise. You learn that fatigue diminishes the spirit and can create doubt and fear. So you take more time to rest. And, just as food fuels the body, laughter fuels our soul. So you take more time to laugh and to play.

You learn, that for the most part, in life you get what you believe you deserve… and that much of life truly is a self-fulfilling prophecy. You learn that anything worth achieving is worth working for and that wishing for something to happen is different from working toward making it happen.
More importantly, you learn that in order to achieve success you need direction, discipline and perseverance. You also learn that no one can do it all alone and that it’s OK to risk asking for help.

You learn that the only thing you must truly fear is the great robber baron of all time… FEAR itself. You learn to step right into and through your fears because you know that whatever happens you can handle it and to give in to fear is to give away the right to live life on your terms. And you learn to fight for your life and not to squander it living under a cloud of impending doom. You learn that life isn’t always fair, you don’t always get what you think you deserve and that sometimes bad things happen to unsuspecting, good people. On these occasions you learn not to personalize things. You learn that God isn’t punishing you or failing to answer your prayers. It’s just life happening.

And you learn to deal with evil in its most primal state – the ego. You learn that negative feelings such as anger, envy and resentment must be understood and redirected or they will suffocate the life out of you and poison the universe that surrounds you. You learn to admit when you are wrong and to building bridges instead of walls. You learn to be thankful and to take comfort in many of the simple things we take for granted, things that millions of people upon the earth can only dream about: a full refrigerator, clean running water, a soft warm bed, a long hot shower.

Slowly, you begin to take responsibility for yourself by yourself and you make yourself a promise to never betray yourself and to never, ever settle for less than your heart’s desire. You hang a wind chime outside your window so you can listen to the wind. And you make it a point to keep smiling, to keep trusting, and to stay open to every wonderful possibility.

Finally, with courage in your heart and with God (whatever you believe him/her to be) by your side you take a stand, you take a deep breath and you begin to design the life you want to live as best as you can.
 
 
 

Author: Unknown
There’s always light at the end of the tunnel even if sometimes you have to try really hard to see it!
— 14/10/2010 14:09:21: post edited by movedon.
Quote Post

 

 

 

 

 

  
I hope I have got this right but I think one that you will relate to is ‘Lcat286’s’ thread ‘Husband with a gambling problem – how do I deal with this?’  I found that one on page 10.  although their marriage does not survive I think you will find support in her thinking.
All of the above have gone and left the addiction behind them.  There is a lot I wanted to say to you, particularly about your worries about **** and its relationship to addiction but I have got to go and do other things.
I am glad the lovely and inspiration Kathryn has told you that you are welcome on the Feel Good Challenge.   It is great when the forums are crossed supportively.
I will write again soon.   Don’t get too bogged down with the semantics of the addiction.
V (who seldom stays quiet for long!) 
 
 

[velvet]

Hi Adele
I know you read other threads and I assume therefore you have seen my attempt to explain **** and the addiction to gamble.
I think you sum it up well when you say **** is easy and relationships are hard.   Relationships between CG and non-CG are often verging on the impossible. 
One of the dangers we have, I think, as we become more knowledgeable about the addiction to gamble is, that we can ‘see it’ it other things too and I am definitely not saying that you do.    
**** can be a part of the addiction and not an addiction or obsession in itself.   The gambling stops and the surrounding behaviour stops – well lots of it anyway.   It would be naïve to suggest that when the gambling stops a perfect person emerges and personally I could not put up with a perfect person.  I have heard from 4 separate CGs that **** helped them feel like men when the addiction had done its best to emasculate them.   All 4 were ashamed and glad to leave it behind when they changed their lives.  
I find the inability to love others because of personal hatred and a total feeling of failure and worthlessness, the saddest part of the addiction to gamble – I can understand that a CG will feel worthless when ‘love’ raises its head in the bed (sorry bad analogy).   You have hit the nail on the head – **** is easier than proving themselves physically with someone who loves them – but it can prove to them that they are still able to function, although in actuality it only increases their shame and lack of self-esteem. 
I hope some of this helps
Post soon – your quietness is overwhelming
V         
 

[adele]

Thank you all for your posts and encouragement.  I apologize for being absent from here for so long.  I am so looking forward to a whole day in my pajamas, drinking coffee, catching up and posting.
My sister and I have been working night and day for the last week and a half (oh my aching body!) on going through my house and my mom’s getting things sorted and ready for the estate sale on the 18th. We have carried trailer loads of stuff from here that I am getting rid of – and it feels great. I have cleaned out an entire room in order to basically replicate my mother’s sewing room. She was a master quilter before macular degeneration took its toll on her sight, so she can no longer see well enough to make her beautiful quilts. I have a lot to learn, but I will have a wonderful sewing room to do so in!
I haven’t been able to post because my sister has been here, and I don’t feel I can slip off for any length of time – we have really been busy. She has been so wonderful to help realizing how overwhelmed I have been.  She knows me so well in some ways, and doesn’t know me at all in others..
My husband came home for 4 days over the holiday and we worked his rear end off.  He says he talked to the counselor on Friday and they were going to get together this week to work out a time slot – so we will see.
He says he has not been to the casino but he gambled another $60 on his phone this last 2 weeks which he says is a lot better than before, and it is, but it’s still gambling. I asked him to try to cut it all out. 
I don’t know about the **** – didn’t bother to look and didn’t really have time.
He seems to be excited about getting the house (and the garage and the work shop) cleared out and organized. When he called me last night to let me know he’d made it back to work ok, he reassured me that he would call the counselor, that he was really happy with everything we were doing here, and he said "I think if we get the house all straightened out, and get ME all straightened out things are going to get better for us."  He seemed sincere and humble.
I don’t know, I can’t get very excited about anything these days I guess because I don’t want to be disappointed – but I am more at peace than I have been in awhile. I just hope it isn’t the calm before the storm!
V my husband truly does have Impulse Control issues and always has. I suspect this is the reason he’s been married 5 *****. The **** has been ongoing since the 90’s, so unfortunately I don’t think it’s going away when and if the gambling goes away, and neither will the unreasonable spending: It all came before the  gambling.  But I know too that due to his raising he has always felt (undeservedly) somewhat worthless or inadequate, so what you say still makes sense and is reasonable.
V – what I am interested in finding out about is counseling and therapy:  What approach is generally taken in therapy? Do most therapists rely solely on what their patient tells them? How do they manage to learn about other issues aside from the one the CG is there for? How will we know if the therapist knows what he’s doing?  I think we may only get one shot at this – if he actually goes – and I don’t want it to be wasted on an ill-fitted counselor.
 If our marriage does survive this addiction, I now realize that I want a better marriage than I had before the addiction – and strange as it sounds, if that happens I guess I will have the addiction to thank!  
Gotta run – my sister the slave driver is back …
 

[velvet]

Hiya Adele
Hooray for sister – anything or anybody that keeps you active and away from the constant niggling about gambling is good.   It helps when you are eventually faced with having to think about it, to be clearer headed and more positive..  
I think it is great that you are more at peace with yourself than you have been for a long time.   You are aware that there may be slightly stormier ***** ahead  but – here you, fully aware of the capabilities of the addiction and yet you are feeling at peace.  That is a woman on a mission.  
You are making the most of the calm ***** – you are gaining in strength. You are enjoying other things in life and dare I say it – not spending every day looking at this site which is not always a healthy option when you want to pull back from the constant buzz of hearing the addiction. 
I understand what you mean when you say that even if the gambling was controlled your husband might still have problems which would be, for many, unacceptable and that is something that only you can decide about.   A thief who becomes a CG and then controls their addiction will almost certainly still be a thief.  A CG who steals to satisfy the addiction and then controls that addiction will almost certainly not be a thief.  
The information as to what brought the CG to the professional has to come from the client, or loved one (if they are included), but the dissembling of that information comes from expertise, experience, understanding and years of training.   A good therapist/counsellor will help the client dig in to their inner self but if the client is determined not to allow the therapist in, the job is almost impossible – hence the requirement that the CG has to want to stop.  Having supported the client to dig deep and bring up the issues that have lain buried they can  teach how to use the tools for the future.      Personally I would go on recommendation – we have access to a lot more information on the ability of professionals these days and I would use every bit of it.    I went to a counsellor and a psychiatrist on the recommendation of my doctor – but I don’t think even my doctor had a clue about the addiction and the counselling made me feel worse and more alone than before.   The psychiatrist thankfully did help me understand that I did not have Alzheimer’s disease but after a time that information did not help either.  My problem was that I didn’t know what I was looking for  – but you do.  
With regard to how they learn about side issues – if you take this forum, the first post is solely about the CG.   It takes time to learn about the author of the post but I know a lot about you just by continuing along a path together.   You are an incredibly capable human being and you know what you want from a counsellor – even if you think you don’t.   I know I cannot tell you what to do but having found the right counsellor it is my belief, that the CG is better off seeing that counsellor alone.     It does involve a lot of trust but I know, for instance, that I would not have been helpful to the counsellors who gave my CG the ability to dig deep into himself for his answers and who gave him the tools to live his life in control of his addiction.    I believe that our recovery follows a different path and is equally important.   The paths might converge but it is better, in my opinion, that regardless of the outcome, the non-CG walks their path separately.
I think ‘you’ will know if the counsellor your husband sees is up to the mark.   When a CG changes they lay a massive burden down and the lightness that comes from that act is visible – especially when you are as aware as you are.
I accept that your husband may have looked sincere and humble and I believe that getting you ‘straightened out’ is the best thing you can do for you and for him – however ‘straightening you out’ is not his answer.   You are not being ‘straightened out’ so that you can live with and tolerate his addiction.   ‘You’ do not make your husband gamble.   ‘You’ do not make your husband look at ****.  
I find your words about wanting a ‘better marriage than you had before the addiction’ to be positive.   None of us can truly know when the addiction did start – the CG can usually only guess.   However I don’t find it strange at all that you think that if a better future is possible you will have the addiction to thank.   I don’t thank my CG’s addiction because it caused him too much pain but I do probably have a better relationship with him than would have been possible without adversity.   Many families have different adversities and working through them can create better relationships.   I believe that the addiction to gamble is one of the greatest adversities but can, if we allow it, be turned into a great education. 
Thank goodness for the slave driver.   It sounds as though you are doing a great job and I am sure the end result will make all the aching bones worthwhile.  
V
  
          
 

[adele]

Hi All,
I am very appreciative of the “many tough posts” from all of you who seem to understand me better than I understand myself some*****.  I really don’t know what I would have done these last months without this site and all of you. And V you need not be concerned about the “whipping” speed:  I believe the chapters of my book have unfolded as they were meant to and exactly as I have needed them to – and for that I am eternally grateful.
Something Is Changing
With my sister here for so long I had to lay my book down for awhile, but I’ve read these posts and others over and over because in the middle of all the “busy”,  some***** I just needed to remind myself of what is really going on in my life.  You see –  something is changing in me and I don’t know if it’s good or bad. I don’t think about the addiction all the time and, sadly, I don’t really think about and worry about my husband nearly as much;  and I don’t experience that tugging ache in my heart every time I do think of him.
With so much focus on all that we’ve needed to do for Mother’s estate sale and to get her house ready to sell, I’ve sort of “buried my head in the sand” and become somewhat immune to the normally invasive and painful thoughts.  I am hoping that the “sledgehammer of truth” has finally knocked me off the damned rollercoaster and this numbness I feel is me getting my “sea legs” back.  
The Last 3 Weeks
The last time I saw him was on the 21st. He had come home late Friday night before the last day of the estate sale on the 20th, so we didn’t do anything – plus I was upset that he had gambled his last $600. All weekend he was unfazed by my indifference, wanting to chit chat about the sale, etc., but he did not offer to talk about this setback or about his out-of-control gambling problem, and what, if anything, he was going to do about it.
By this time I had read all of your posts many *****, except for the last one you wrote V, and the words had been swirling around in my head: The sledgehammer was pounding away;   … there is no magic spell … CGing is not about money … he is gambling with our marriage … I am doing all the work … I cannot save him … don’t be so quick to forgive and forget … if I don’t let go – if I don’t give up, his addiction will continue … nothing I do or write or say to him will wake up his conscience and snap him out of this … he has to want his own recovery … stand back and let him find his own way … face the horrible truths …
When he was ready to leave on Sunday the 21st, he came over to me expecting the usual consoling goodbye hug and kiss and reassuring “I love you too” from me – even though I had gotten absolutely nothing from him! As he stood there it hit me –  this is what was expected of me! This is exactly how I allow the addiction to continue, how I accept and tolerate the gambling!
The truth is that standing before me was only a shadow of the man I loved; the form my husband’s addiction has assumed and that I have been foolishly chasing after. The truth is – the man I married and committed to spend the rest of my life with is no longer there and I don’t know if he’s ever coming back. The truth is – this shadow of a man cannot take care of me or care about me:  He cannot be there for me or be with me.  
 I became so angry that he was once again going to leave me frustrated and wanting that instead of an embrace, I dismissed him with a very firm “Goodbye” and went on with whatever I was doing. He stood there for a moment looking stricken and alone, and finally walked out the door without another word.  I have not spoken to him since.
Unbeknownst to him, I still have online access to his bank account because I had utilized a “quick sign-on” feature on my iPad that only requires the PIN before he changed his password.  So I saw that he had gotten a $1500 payday loan on the 26th. He paid $500 on his Advancial account and probably intended to leave the rest for the draft payments that were coming due on his account. However, sometime later that day he withdrew $650 cash. I’m sure he thought about that money just sitting there about to be drafted by his creditors and convinced himself that he could win enough to pay all his debts. Sometime later that night he withdrew the rest of his balance before any drafts could hit. As I watched this struggle, I kept thinking about Jamie’s story and how his addictive thinking would work on him until all logic and reason was gone. It is a vicious and unrelenting grip this addiction holds over its’ victims isn’t it?
We didn’t speak or text until he texted me on 8/2 to let me know he would be home on days off the following Monday. He called me “Dear”, said it was strange to go 2 weeks with no communication, hoped I was doing ok, and put a “love you” at the end. I asked him if he’d seen the counselor yet. He replied that he hadn’t – still relieving supervisors – new ones coming out of training, blah blah blah. (From now on until he is getting help and I see consistent, positive change, when he opens his mouth I’m going to assume it is the addiction speaking – blah blah blah – taking a page from Ell’s book.)  I texted him back suggesting that he make an appointment with the counselor instead of coming home. He said ok he’d do that and that was basically that. I don’t know if he saw a counselor or not, but I made a note on my “To Do” list to make an appointment with one for myself tomorrow.
 The gloves are off Velvet and I think this is me taking my stance. I had to dig deep for the strength to tell him not to come home, but I know it was the right thing to do for a change. I don’t know what he (the addiction) thinks about it, but I have a sad notion the spiral has begun.  While he was on his days off he got another payday loan for $900 and withdrew $750 cash the same day. Insufficient funds charges by the bank took care of the rest.
Although it has been difficult, I have come to realize the truth is I am very much alone in this marriage right now and I think I’m actually coming to terms with that realization.  I’ve noticed that I think and speak more in terms of “me” and “I” instead of “us” and “we”.  I am exploring the idea of being single (in terms of a separation until and unless he finds his way to recovery) and what that might mean for me. It became very clear to me when I read your words Ell that, like you, I do not want a relationship with an addiction! I want to refuse to live with it.
 I am socking back as much money as I can in case the addiction talks him into keeping his paycheck one day. If that happens I’m afraid it will be over for us.  So I am trying to “apply myself” a little better to (translation: “give a **** about” lol) my thankless part-time job with the federal government in case I am forced to amp it up and take on more work.
We’ve just about got my mom’s house ready to sell, and I think I’m going to start on mine next – take advantage of a really strong seller’s market  out here. Then I may move to where my mom and sister live. It would mean being further away from my granddaughters, but I can just make lots of trips back here to see them.
Thanks again everyone for your advice, your care and concern, and your continued support. I know I will get through this with your help.
Adele
 "… should I give up or should I just keep trying to run after you when there's nothing there?"  Adele

[monique]

Hi Adele.
That is a wonderful post – you are so clear-headed and strong now.  I admire your perseverance and courage and wish you well as you continue.  Monique

[jenny46]

Dear Adele
Your recent replies have been tough but already your learning is obvious in the way you are now writing – I see a new and stronger Adele emerging, one who will question how she is being treated or allowing herself to be treated. the addiction is tough and will remain a step ahead whilst untreated. We can be tougher by trying not to keep up with it if that makes sense ?
I would think he is gathering his thoughts Adele (not that I am a mind reader!! of course) His addiction is experiencing different responses and unpredictable responses from you and may feel quite unsafe with all of that – it may decide to change its behaviour in order to try and illicit the old Adele like responses – be ready for this if you can.
Its horrible watching the addiction take so much from a person as you say, even though we know its within that persons own control it doesn’t make it any the easier. However at least now hopefully it will no longer be taking you down with it as well. Where you are now and where you can be puts you in a much better position to give the right support to him if that’s what you want to do. You should be nearer to the top of your own priorities and it is good to read that you are, difficult when you find a new way of being or get in between, the old and the evolvement of the new.
Whatever choices you make Adele are ones that will be right for you at that time, I think it does feel like being alone in a relaitionship with this addiction and consequently it is little wonder that we begin to make choices or think along the lines of being alone, as we already are. He could change this if he so wanted Adele, I hope you never lose sight of that in the future, with what ever decisions you make.
Any way what’s wrong with single !! I love it, not that I am recommending it as a course of action for anyone else, I would rather of had it the other way but it wasn’t to be. I remember the ***** when my thinking started to change and indeed it still is and the insecurities of not knowing even if the knowing brought worse problems, it still brought security.
With the benefits of a couple of months with no addiction in my life, would I go back? I think I could say even if I wanted to then I couldn’t (thankfully). Big changes in you Adele and ones hopefully that will turn into some positive changes for both of you. I think its great!
Jenny
 We see things not as they are, but through how we are today x

[velvet]

Hi Adele
It is good to see you back again and with such positivity. 
Things ‘changing inside us’ can be scary.   I suspect you are afraid that with change you might not like yourself.   I think it is a bit like us turning detective.  Trust has been an integral part of our lives and snooping is something that is foreign to us – I hated it.    It is great that we have this site where we can realise that we are not alone with this behaviour but more importantly to realise that this behaviour passes – we do not spend the rest of our lives mistrusting and digging around looking for something bad.  Free of the addiction, trust can return, unless we want to hang on to mistrust thinking it a better way to live – I don’t and I know you won’t!
How well I remember the sledgehammer of truth and the way I fought it tooth and nail.  Numbing is exactly the way I would describe the transition between old and new behaviour.   Like an anaesthetic it will wear off and you will feel confident again.
You are not thinking about the addiction all the time, or your addicted husband so much because you have sloughed off the need to save him – that is not the same as stopping loving someone.   Your husband has two ways of dealing with what has happened – he can either change his life or carry or regardless but without you picking up the pieces all the time.   Both ways are changes with implications for him.   My CG rode off into the sunset more determined than ever that he was going to prove me wrong – his addiction was going to bring him a life that would amaze everybody.  
I would imagine that it is terrifying when a CG flies solo with an addiction that is so holed it keeps crashing – every crash must hurt but determination to prove the addiction is airworthy drives the CG back into the pilot’s seat, blind to the fact that they are not in control.   The addiction can struggle on crashing and winching itself up with more bits of wreckage flying off, with the CG constantly struggling to control the inevitable hoping someone will throw them a life-line and keep them aloft.  
Without you as his co-pilot you have given your husband the freedom to try and prove his addiction cares about him.   You know it doesn’t, I know it doesn’t – you can only wait and pray that ‘he’ will learn soon that it doesn’t.   It would appear from his last communication that he is hoping you are still there to save him when he crashes again.
In the meantime you have chosen to live without the addiction in your life.   It is a choice I have made and it is unalterable.  Something changed in me and I believe it was good and necessary – I have no regrets about the change and I am not hard, so don’t be afraid.    You made your informed decision and that is all any of us can do.   You have re-taken control of your life and you have allowed him the chance to take control of his.
Recovery for you will be up and down.   There will be ***** of doubts and despair, there will be the inevitable ‘what ifs’ and ‘if only’.   I can only ****** you that I do not do ‘what if?’ or ‘if only’.  There comes a plateau – a peaceful understanding – that you did the right thing for the right reason.  
I sincerely hope, along with you, that your husband will change his life but in the meantime I will walk along with you for as long as you want me to because ‘your’ recovery is so very important.  I know you will get through this.   I love the way you are dealing with your situation.   There is no harm in exploring the idea of being single, you have been single for some time already without knowing it and now you are tightening up and protecting your relationship with yourself.   Nothing is final; nobody should ever tell you what to do.
Well done
Velvet      
 

[san250]

Dear Adele
I’m sending you a huge hug (((hug))), way to go girl!! Your last thread I am sure will help alot of people on this site. Thank you for sharing. Stay strong and take care of you. San xx

[adele]

Monique, Jenny, Velvet, San – Thank you for your words of encouragement – I really need to hear them.
I do not feel so clear headed and strong right now. The anesthetic has not yet worn off.  I am still numb and not at all confident in having the proper coping skills to deal with my CG now that I have taken a firmer stance in rejecting his addiction.
Since we are basically not communicating at all, I don’t think he understands that things are changing with me. He seems to have forgotten that I asked him to go to counseling instead of coming home last time. We had to text each other last night because his Bluebird card was being denied. (This is the card I am able to put small amounts of money on for his gas and grocery purchases – no cash!) His last text was that he was coming home this weekend!
What do I say to him?  I think he probably misses me, ***** to get fresh clothes, see the grandbabies, be at home for awhile … and I miss him too … but I’m not sure I’m ready or want to deal with his addiction just yet. I am very definitely “in-between” the old and new way of handling this, and I don’t think I know how to make that clear to him yet.
I’m afraid he will come home, and it will be the “neutral chit chat” kind of thing our time together has become, and he will leave here thinking he can just go on as usual.
Or worse, he WILL have realized something is changing with me, be scared that I’m leaving him, become emotional on me, and it will break my heart. 
I feel vulnerable, and I hate that.
Adele
 "… should I give up or should I just keep trying to run after you when there's nothing there?"  Adele

[velvet]

Dear Adele
Why do we do it?   We try and cover every scenario and then it doesn’t happen as we thought, what then?
Let’s look at each of your concerns.  You are not confident, yet, that you have the proper coping skills to deal with your CG.    There is no badge or medal to show you have come top of the class in confidence – if there was I wouldn’t have it yet.   You are ‘aware’ of your husband’s addiction in a way you have never been before – that awareness is ‘in’ you now and whatever you do it will work for you.  
You don’t think he understands things are changing for you but he can’t ‘understand’ because the changes in you are not visual.   His behaviour will hopefully react to your change but he won’t notice it as he would a new hair style.   He can’t see you climbing into the driving seat and putting his addiction under serious threat. 
Worse still he ‘will’ have noticed changes in you and be scared you are leaving him.   – He is an active CG whose prior interest, above any grandchildren or life that ‘you’ think he should care about most, is the next gamble.   ‘If’ he tries the emotional ********* then your new found confidence that ‘really is there’ will not be so easily fooled.   Active CGs weep because they are afraid that time is being called on their addiction.   Non-CGs are suckers for tears and how the addiction knows it.   The addiction to gamble produces crocodile tears.  We try to believe the loved one shares ‘our’ emotions, we want the tears to be real but the loved one’s addiction has one motivation and that is to satisfy it’s craving – it cries only for itself. 
I am sure your husband will enjoy fresh clothes and all the things that are important to you but they are mere trappings to an active CG.   You will exude the difference in you – you don’t need to make things clear to him.   Nobody can ‘make’ a CG see things clearly unless they want to see.  
If he didn’t behave as though nothing has happened it would be surprising.   CGs do behave as though past behaviour has not happened – it is symptomatic of the addiction.   If he did behave as though something has happened then he would be moving towards accepting his addiction.  You are ready for this Adele.   You are as ready as any of us would ever be at the stage you are at.  
I understand you miss him – but you miss the man, not his addiction.   Unfortunately until he determines to change, the two things are inter-twined.   It is the addiction you are fighting not the man you love and you are fighting it because you love him.  
The ‘only’ concern I have in your post is that you say you are not sure you ‘want’ to deal with his addiction just yet.   I understand this.   It is messy and if you can put it off maybe things will just change without any effort.  I put it off for 25 years so I can’t judge – but there never will be a right time.   You have started taking over the driving, if you slump back into the passenger seat allowing him to drive on recklessly then his addiction will be right there beside you.  
I cannot tell you what to do (as you know) but I think you should stop worrying about what if this and what if that.   You will have changed whether you wanted to or not.  I can’t go back to the unwitting innocent that I was anymore than you can – we can’t undo what we know and we try and forget at our peril.  
There is no need for rows or ultimatums that have no effect anyway.  Be yourself when he comes home and allow the knowledge (and confidence) that you do have carry you through.  I have read your post to BB – you meant what you were saying – you are ready, you are strong.   If the visit does result in the neutral chit chat, then so be it, we can talk about it afterwards.  At the moment you have too many what ifs floating about and you probably need this visit to realise how you have changed and possibly how he has too.   I will look forward to your post-visit post but whatever it says we can deal with it.   The metaphor ‘Rome wasn’t built in a Day’ has just sprung into my mind.   You are putting bits of your jigsaw together – it is probably the biggest puzzle you will ever do and it is never going to be finished in one visit.  
I hate feeling vulnerable too and it still happens at ***** but I do now know that I can rise above it – as you will.
Velvet
Success is not the result of spontaneous combustion.  You must set yourself on fire first.
 

[velvet]

Dear Adele
I am running out of time today but I have to post to you because you are doing so well – not only are you ‘growing as a person’ but you are supporting others brilliantly.   You deserve the nice accolades you have received so believe them – or else!   I’m not sure who else is but she sounds a positive person.
Your husband has ‘done’ something positive instead of talking about it so tomorrow hopefully you can relax and have the wonderful silver wedding anniversary you wanted.   Who ***** Hawaii when you can have a round of golf and a nice dinner anyway?   No answer is required!
So just for ‘today’ Adele, which is of course the only day we need to concern ourselves with, you are feeling happier and more confident.   My message is short and simple therefore ‘keep going and doing what you are doing because it is working’.   Well done.
Congratulations to Mr and Mrs Adele on their Silver Wedding Anniversary.  I will raise a cyber glass of glorious cyber champagne to you both.
V
 

[buffdazza]

Hey Adele
Still new to the forum and realised I could see your story. I can already feel your anguish at reading your first post in this thread. I have to attend a GA meeting tonight but will look forward (if that’s the right term here) to reading through these 12pages and IF i can offer any support or encouragement to you….and I hope I can….I will xWhen you can't run, you crawl. And when you can't crawl, when you can't do that… you find someone to carry you.

[adele]

Hi Velvet –
Thank you very much for the anniversary cyber toast (and the encouragement as always).
I hope you have a WONDERFUL time on your vacation! 
See if Mr. Velvet can sing this to you in french … http://lyricstranslate.com/en/you-got-it-tu-las.html
You know what they say:
          "When in France ….. "
Adele
 

[velvet]

Hi Adele

The mere thought of Mr V singing in French is enough to scare the horses!

This is my first post on the new site and you are my guinea pig.

It’s been a while since you posted so I can’t really comment on your situation – how about an update.

Speak soon

V

[adele]

(I found this between 2 posts on 5/03/2013)
Hi Adele
Permalink Submitted by velvet on Tue, 09/24/2013 – 20:34
Hi Adele

The mere thought of Mr V singing in French is enough to scare the horses!

This is my first post on the new site and you are my guinea pig.

It’s been a while since you posted so I can’t really comment on your situation – how about an update.

Speak soon

V

(Now here’s my post … ugh!)

Hello V!

It is so good to hear your humor again. I hope your holiday in France was wonderful!

Mr. V’s French crooning wouldn’t have scared us guinea pigs! (oink oink! … wait, do guinea pigs oink or snort?)

This is my first ‘Purple Post’ too. I’m sorry to say I became too frustrated when the site came back up (things are frustrating enough around here .. lol) and decided it was probably best I stayed away ‘til things improved (my mood for instance) lest I spew asterisks everywhere…

Our beloved site does seem to have come out of surgery too soon, and missing vital parts.

Glad you’re back! I’ll post more later if this one turns out OK … eeesh

Adele

[adele]

Good grief … my last post showed up between 2 posts on 5/3/13!

I’m gonna see if this one will stick to my 9/5 post since I clicked on it’s “reply” button …

[adele]

Apparently you have to click on the “reply” button within the last post on the thread or it gets tossed around. Too bad I couldn’t underline or italicize the word within to emphasize …

[velvet]

Dear Adele

Thank you for sticking with us – we are indeed having teething trouble and unfortunately due to sickness some cannot as yet be ironed out.
I have made a note of all your comments and I will pass them on.
Now you have found the way to get a post in the right place, it would be great if you updated.

V

[adele]

typing in the “add new comment”box at the bottm of the thread.

[adele]

this appended to the others that showed up in between my 5/3/13 posts.

edit:

[adele]

this is typed by clicking the purple “reply” button WITHIN the last post box on the thread.

[velvet]

Hi Adele

I meant an update on ‘you’.

I saw elsewhere that you know your husband has been on the site.

This is ‘my’ experience and although I know that others have done the same, it is no way designed to be a statement of how it should be done. What you decide to do is entirely up to you. When a CG wants to use this site as a place to learn and talk about their addiction it can be useful if there is an agreement that the F&F loved one doesn’t read the CG’s posts. The reason being that CGs can, obviously, say things that are controversial because their memories don’t necessarily coincide with the truth and the F&F member, loved one, can feel the need to criticize or correct, thus removing the protection and freedom of speech that anonymity offers. I do know that many CG do read the F&F forum and I also know they can find it very painful but generally speaking, I think, this is not as problematic as the other way round. A CG ‘can’ use the forum as a means of manipulation and I am definitely not saying that this is inevitable.

I hope that makes sense – but if it doesn’t you know where to come to and how to post your question.

Velvet

[vera]

just sent you a waste of time post adele …never arrived

[adele]

Hi Vera,

Your post to me (above) landed in just the right spot… However Velvet’s post to me on the 29th did not! HA!

I think you will be notified by email about my response here because I clicked on the purple “reply” button under your post to me before typing this in the “comment” box.

This is one of the cool things about the new site. The emails are generated automatically by the website though, not by the members. GT would never give your email address out to anyone without your explicit permission.

I know you’re having a tough time, so I hope you will “come in out of the rain” and give this site a chance to grow on you. I think it’s going to be something else!

Adele

[velvet]

Hi Adele

You are doing so well putting information out about the site but you still have not answered my request for an update on ‘you’ and I know you have seen it because you found my post of 29th.

V

[Dunc]

Hi Adele

No more asterisks, Ive removed the profanity filter which may have some negative impacts in the short term . ill be adding some back, you know the obvious ones but some words may get through and some may offend so please keep emailing us with your ideas and comments.. please keep helping us improve the site, the new sites potential is by far greater than the old GT and can only get better with the ideas and support of our members. Some ideas we may not be able to facilitate due to financial constraints but you never know what’s round the corner.

Id just like to echo what Velvet has said; you’ve been fabulous helping me find problems and making me delve deeper into issues but this site is about YOU and how we can help YOU, please update us on your recovery

[adele]

Okay V and Harry, here it is … an update from Adele…. Thanks so much for your posts! It is such a blessing to know someone really cares ….

First … I am inebriated (admittedly) having just returned from a long Happy Hour with my very best long time girlfriends who knew nothing of my husband’s addiction and what we have been going through until tonight …. Yep, I was determined to drink enough to tell them about what has been going on in my life.

My best friend has known all along, but these other 2 women are like sisters … maybe better… Lord help me it was gut wrenching, but they did not judge me, they only have compassion and concern for me … why did I not tell them sooner?
We have been through so much together … I have known and loved them for 30 years!

I am so relieved …. I may wake up tomorrow regretting my drunken confessions, but I don’t think so. There is something so special about a deep-seated relationship with women who know you so well and love you anyway.

Let me see now if I can summarize what has gone in “my house” recently …
My Silver Anniversary (9-3-13) was basically a non-event … hubby gave me a sweet card, but for the first time in our marriage, I did not have an anniversary card or a birthday card for him .. I just had no feelings in that way … (his bd is 8/25) .. I felt bad sort of … but not terribly … he seemed to understand.

Fast forward to this last week: I got really sick on Sunday and went to the doctor on Tuesday (pneumonia) and my physician told me I shouldn’t be alone, so I texted my husband to come home… which he did (about 5 hours later). He ended up falling asleep at the wheel at 3 am Wednesday morning and rolling his truck out in the middle of nowhere …. My worst nightmare come true.

Long story short, he is, for the most part okay, and home right now until he sees a surgeon tomorrow … has no means to gamble although the creditors are hounding him multiple times daily. I’m trying to see this whole event as a weird blessing in disguise …
I apologize if this is disjointed and doesn’t make sense ….. I drank 5 Fresheritas (yummiest thing EVER!) tonight … and I am feeling absolutely no pain of any sort right now! But I knew I was going to post something tonight no matter what.

I think I should mention that I have been a bit astounded that I was not more strongly affected by my husband’s wreck (and near death experience) … I mean I was upset – sort of – but I was so out of it with fever and infection, I just basically went back to sleep when he called me to tell me he had had a bad wreck! What’s wrong with me?
Okay, that’s enough for now … I’ll probly read this tomorrow and say “oops!!” and delete the whole thing! (no I won’t … sorry, this is just me in the raw)
I really really hope everyone is getting the hang of the new website and … Vera – keep trying PLEASE! – and I hope if you stayed away for any reason that you will come back soon!!!
Goodnight everyone ….

Adele

[sirena0215]

Hi Adele, I don’t mean to but in, so pardon me if my note seems intrusive. I’ve been following your story with interest and just wanted to let you know that I hope you get better soon. Both physically and emotionally. We’re all on your side and can see your energy and health is waning. Things have changed drastically for you, and it will probably be some time before adjustments to your emotional independence and new mental models can be fully made. I can see you’ve tried to be strong and generous for your CG in the past. You’ve also been a supportive voice for many of us here on GT, including me. I want to return the favor and let you know I’m sending good thoughts your way. Take care and don’t forget to be kind to yourself! All the Best, Sirena

[velvet]

Dear Adele

And I thought you were not posting because you had nothing you felt you needed to say!

This is cyber space Adele and as such we cannot ‘know’ each other in the same way as if we were physically close. I ‘think’ I understand totally your feelings, as to why you were astounded at your reaction to your husband’s near death experience and it can only be with those thoughts I form my reply.

It would be naïve to suggest that all non-CGs are going to react in the same way, even when they have been given the same support and knowledge. I cannot imagine anybody being instantly prepared to deal with this addiction in a totally empathetic, sympathetic way when it is forced into their lives, unasked for, by another. In my opinion there has to be a toll and depending on the individuals the toll will be different.

Only an individual can determine how deep their abyss is. In my opinion there can never be a judgement on the different ways non-CG deal with the addiction. You have been hit by something you did not expect or sign up for and whatever your outcome and feelings you will be understood on here.

There is nothing wrong, with you, or your feelings. I suggest you didn’t feel as you would have expected to because the addiction has temporarily suffocated your ability to feel empathetic towards the person who has hurt you but based on experience I truly believe this can change.

I suggest that you give yourself time. I am not a believer that that what is said when a person is Brahms and Liszt ( cockney rhyming slang for your condition) is always the absolute truth but maybe it is an indication, maybe not.

In the cold light of day I know you will read what you have written and ponder what it means and I will be interested to read your ponderings.

I know you have accepted that your husband did not ask for or want this addiction but that does not completely diminish the effect it has had on you. Give yourself time. Your recovery is on-going and is not complete. Anger, frustration and struggling with foreign emotions is not something you wake up and find resolved overnight. Keep posting. I know you will come to your own informed decision.

Your friends sound terrific – you are very lucky to have them although I suspect you deserve them. Now was obviously the right time to tell them so don’t concern yourself with why you didn’t before.

Good to hear you posting about you again

V

[velvet]

I sent this hours ago so I am hoping it sticks this time

Dear Adele

And I thought you were not posting because you had nothing you felt you needed to say!

This is cyber space Adele and as such we cannot ‘know’ each other in the same way as if we were physically close. I ‘think’ I understand totally your feelings, as to why you were astounded at your reaction to your husband’s near death experience and it can only be with those thoughts I form my reply.

It would be naïve to suggest that all non-CGs are going to react in the same way, even when they have been given the same support and knowledge. I cannot imagine anybody being instantly prepared to deal with this addiction in a totally empathetic, sympathetic way when it is forced into their lives, unasked for, by another. In my opinion there has to be a toll and depending on the individuals the toll will be different.

Only an individual can determine how deep their abyss is. In my opinion there can never be a judgement on the different ways non-CG deal with the addiction. You have been hit by something you did not expect or sign up for and whatever your outcome and feelings you will be understood on here.

There is nothing wrong, with you, or your feelings. I suggest you didn’t feel as you would have expected to because the addiction has temporarily suffocated your ability to feel empathetic towards the person who has hurt you but based on experience I truly believe this can change.

I suggest that you give yourself time. I am not a believer that that what is said when a person is Brahms and Liszt ( cockney rhyming slang for your condition) is always the absolute truth but maybe it is an indication, maybe not.

In the cold light of day I know you will read what you have written and ponder what it means and I will be interested to read your ponderings.

I know you have accepted that your husband did not ask for or want this addiction but that does not completely diminish the effect it has had on you. Give yourself time. Your recovery is on-going and is not complete. Anger, frustration and struggling with foreign emotions is not something you wake up and find resolved overnight. Keep posting. I know you will come to your own informed decision.

Your friends sound terrific – you are very lucky to have them although I suspect you deserve them. Now was obviously the right time to tell them so don’t concern yourself with why you didn’t before.

Good to hear you posting about you again

V

[madge456]

WOW! You have been through lot. I have to say I can relate to your posting – I often think if my husband had been thru a similar accident I might have reacted the same way – There is nothing wrong with you – I think when someone hurts you over and over, you suffer from “empathy fatigue” – you are so sick of feel bad for them and carrying them that at some point they are too heavy and you can’t do it anymore.. I relate.. I feel the same way..
You need to take care of yourself – I know everyone SAYS this but it sound like you are really sick. Without your health, you have nothing. So don’t worry about your reaction to your hubby or anything – you need all your strength. Breathe. Relax and heal.
With love
M

[adele]

Velvet – you are so right –the weekend scenario did not happen at all as I thought.
He didn’t come home.
He texted me late Friday night:
(HIM 8:30 pm) “Ok leaving location going back to yard. Will be on my way home around 10. Will have to go back Sunday afternoon.”
(ME 8:58pm) “Seems awfully late to be heading this way.”
(HIM 9:11pm) “I am awfully tired, but don’t want you thinking that instead of going home I’m going somewhere else.”
(HIM AGAIN 9:23pm) “Oh yes the best reason is I miss you.”
(ME 9:58pm) “I don’t really think about where you are all the time anymore – and that helps me. Sadly, I know you are going to be wherever your addiction wants you to be.”
Apparently just as I texted this to him, he was having trouble trying to get gas with his Bluebird card and he texted me at the same time asking me to check the settings on the account, etc., so I don’t know if he saw or read my last text. I changed the permissions on his card and he was able to put gas in his personal vehicle. Then he texted:
(HIM 10:20pm) “Ok thanks. See you in a few hours.”
(ME) “I don’t think you should come in tonight.”
(HIM) “I think I can make it.”
(ME) “Stay there and get rest.”
(HIM) “Ok, I’ll try to be there around noon or 1”
The next morning …
(HIM 9:44 am) “Well, I’m still here. They had a small equipment fire in one of the blenders that is in my crew. Nobody hurt, but the finger pointing has started as to who is at fault. I am supporting my service supervisor”
(HIM AGAIN 9:59 am) “They are saying he is not watching making sure his hands are doing their jobs. So unless you need me at home for something I am going to stay and hopefully get some rest. I have pulled several 24 hour days in the last few weeks. I have very little money, so I’m not staying to go to any casinos. I do have vacation scheduled for the first week in September. Let me know if you need me to come home and I will come on in. Love you.”
(ME 10:46 am) “I am fine here. Like I said before, I can’t afford to worry about where you are all the time anymore. I have accepted the truth and the truth is that your addiction is in control of your life and your decisions.
I don’t want a relationship with an addiction so it is just as well you aren’t coming home – because I don’t know how to act around you.
I am told you won’t really hear half of what I just said, or your addiction will distort the meaning, but I needed to say it anyway.
Please take care of yourself.
I love you … the real you.”
There is a part of me (my ego) that wants to believe he really wanted to come home to me Friday night, but I didn’t want him to – so I pushed him away with my harsh words. … Did I do that???
But then I think the truth, which is so hard to see clearly sometimes, is that I wanted him here – but knew (in my heart) from his very first text he wasn’t coming home.
Maybe I am slumping back in the passenger seat, avoiding his addiction by not seeing or talking to him. It has been 4 weeks today and I think the silence has served its purpose – at least for me.
I think what you say is true Jenny – right or wrong, the choices I’ve made were right for me at the time. And V, I realize it is also true that I can’t undo what I know; that l have forever changed and will never unwittingly be taken down by this addiction.
So … I have been sitting here twisting my hair and staring at the words “You are ready for this Adele. You are as ready as any of us would ever be at the stage you are at.” I have no idea if this is true or not V, but I do think it is time to try something different – right or wrong.
I know my husband has put in for vacation the first week of September because our 25th wedding anniversary is the 3rd. This is not where I want us to be on our Silver Anniversary. Rather suddenly I have decided (or maybe I am having a weak moment – who cares?) that I still love this man very much and I want us to find some way to celebrate the milestone and the many good years we’ve had together. I need a little kindle for that fire …
I will need to work it out in my head, but I think I may be “spontaneous” and call him to test the waters. He certainly won’t be expecting this …
Thank you all for listening once again.
Hopeful as ever,
Adele

[adele]

First I must apologize that I have not been supportive of others on this site lately. I have been reading though, and I see many of you – like me – struggling, and I am so sorry for that. I simply haven’t had the heart (or the time) to post. I’m going to get back in gear soon I’m sure. I am thinking of you all, and wishing the best for each of you as you persevere.

My sister has gone home …
My sister left late Saturday afternoon to go home after being here with me for over 2 weeks. We both cried because we have so enjoyed being together during this bittersweet time, and because we know so many of our parents’ possessions and our family home for the last 40 years are about to be sold to complete strangers. I cried too because when she went home, I was once again left alone with my painful secret – and the weight of it crashed in on me Saturday night. I laid in bed most of Sunday; exhausted from the physical labor of the last few weeks, and emotionally raw.

Another setback …
I found out Wednesday that my husband had gambled again: He went to the casino with $600 withdrawn from his account for the supposed purpose of paying on two of his gambling debts. The scenario played out the same as always with all the same nonsense that I have determined I will no longer tolerate: First I got the text notification from his bank that $600 had been withdrawn. I texted him “…What for…?” He texted back “… to pay Advancial and Pay Pal …” Then he didn’t make his usual phone call to me that evening. Then he wouldn’t respond to my text … Same old same old … blah blah blah!

Wednesday, 7/10/13 at 10:30pm – Me: “Well … you know what I’m thinking … are you where I think you are? Or have you been?” An hour later I haven’t heard back from him.
So at 11:30pm – Me again: “OK I won’t play this game with you anymore. Either text me now or don’t contact me at all until you get your shit together and I’ll just go on with my own thing again. “
Him (immediately): “OK I screwed up again”
Me: “How much?”
Him: “$600”
Me: “So you didn’t pay your Advancial or Paypal?”
Him: “ No”
Me: “I don’t know what to say right now … Get some help D … before you lose everything.”
Him: “Hopefully Derek [the counselor] will call and I can get an appointment”
Me: “OK, well I think I’m done for awhile – I have too much going on right now and I’m going to try very hard not to let this shut me down .. I hope you get things worked out soon.”
Him: “I’m sorry.”
Me: “Stop being sorry and pitiful and just decide once and for all if you want to gamble or be married to me. I want to go on with my life one way or the other.”
Him: “I will.”

On Friday, (7/12) I sent him this email – which he has not responded to …

“ I don’t want you to think I have given up. I am, of course, so very disappointed that you went to the casino Wednesday night – but part of me knew when you took that $600 out and told me it was to pay your Advancial and Pay Pal accounts, it would never be used to pay on your gambling debts. But I did have hope that just maybe you would make the right decision.

It was a big step backwards from what I have been trying hard to believe has been a lot of forward motion – i.e. you not going to the casino, and leaving the money alone in your USAA account to have for paying your gambling debts. I would have been more hopeful if you had managed to make arrangements with the counselor sooner (I know you could have put more effort into that so don’t make excuses ok?), but those things were enough to keep me somewhat at peace.

But now, you have given a big chunk of your money back to the casino that you needed to pay your debts – and on top of that you have removed my number and email address from your USAA account. These are just more steps backwards and confirming to me that, despite my optimism (or naivety), you are continuing to choose your addiction over your life with me.

Now I am left wondering if you ever intended to pay Advancial and Pay Pal, or if you had been thinking about it and planning all day to pull the money out and go to the casino.

My resolve stands D: As long as we are together and married – I will not provide money to pay your debts until you are actively getting help and have stopped gambling. You will have to deal with the creditors hounding you, and whatever else comes with that. “
I haven’t texted or heard from him since Wednesday night.

I don’t know what happened with him: He’s been managing his gambling fairly well (small amounts on his phone), he’s left the money in his account alone and he’s seemed to have been a little more open and honest with me these last few weeks. He came home Wednesday night and worked hard with us all weekend. He seemed so positive that things were getting straightened out here, and that HE was going to get straightened out (I think you misunderstood that in my last post V). I am just flabbergasted that 2 days later he falls right back into sneaking around, lying, secrets, ignoring me, blah blah blah! I see by his emails that since Wednesday, his online gambling and porn site surfing has escalated – which I have come to expect by now.

AHHHHHH!!!! How much longer can I do this?!?! I regard my commitment to this marriage as a sacred vow – but I am surely being tested ….

Dear Heavenly Father,
I pray for the serenity to know and truly accept in my mind and heart that I alone can never rid my beloved of the horrid, soul wrenching obsession to gamble, and I pray you grant him the same clarity.
Lord, please give me the strength and courage I need to continue finding ways to cope with the painful wreckage of his addiction, and to love and support him without losing my own heart and soul to this wretched beast.
And finally, should the time come that all is done that can be done, and I have exhausted every avenue and made every effort to save my marriage and to help my husband save himself … I beg your forgiveness … but please, oh please Lord, grant me the wisdom and your blessed assurance to know it is so and release my heart from this burden.
Amen

[adele]

Sirena,

I greatly appreciate your kind and encouraging words, and thank you for the good thoughts – I’ve needed them lately. My health is improving thanks to really good drugs and lots of rest. So now I just need to find ways to regain my energy because I’m going to need it.

Your posts always make me think, and send me googling many times, lol. I think some of your posts are missing from your thread because I was looking for one in particular where I believe you mentioned the UCLA Gambling Studies Program (which I have used a great deal) and you were researching a theory about the addiction and how it affected the brain. Do you still have that post?

I have found a few of mine missing, so I have copied and pasted them back into my thread. It is possible to insert them in the right place chronologically by clicking on the Reply button on the post just before the post you are trying to repost. (that sounds pretty confusing – hope you are able to make sense of it!)

Anyway, thanks for posting here, and I hope you will continue to post your thoughts and experiences as you proceed through your recovery. It is tremendously helpful to me and many others I’m sure, and I think it can’t help but be beneficial to you too.

Hope to see you on here soon,

Adele

[adele]

Dear Madge,

Thank you for your concern and for posting here. I am feeling much better now, physically and emotionally thankfully.

I think your term “empathy fatigue” is fitting. After being guarded with my feelings for my husband for so long, there doesn’t seem to be a lot of emotional stuff left…

I have been following your thread with interest, empathy and sympathy since you first began posting here. Your situation is so complex – I think I have felt inept to respond with anything that would have been helpful. I am so glad you have gotten such great replies from others.

You have done exceptionally well in making yourself aware of your husband’s gambling addiction in addition to his other issues – all the while maintaining a level of normalcy for your children. This is no small feat Madge – you may not feel it, but you have shown tremendous strength in all that you have been through.

We have had some interesting and unexpected interventions (you dropping the decoration on your foot and my husband’s rollover) that put a twist in both our recoveries and our CG’s recoveries haven’t we? I am interested in hearing how things are going with you since you (I assume) have been back on your feet.

I hope you will post soon and continue to explore and share your experiences here. It makes such a difference for me when I post regularly.

Adele

[adele]

Hi All,

I have not posted in awhile, and neither has anyone else. What’s up with us F&Fs?!

So now it’s hard to post for some reason … out of practice I guess. I could kick myself for not posting. It always helps me to keep things somewhat sorted in my head, and the encouragement and input from all of you is sometimes the best thing that happens to me in a day.

I log on here 3 or 4 times a day to see if anyone else is posting because I genuinely care about your recovery journeys – and I figure most of you feel like I do about posting on this site. I (we?) have a long way to go in my recovery, and I know I need this site for support – and to grow and learn by supporting others.

So anyway, since I posted about my husband’s wreck, he has been home on medical leave (at my request) due to a compression fracture in one of his lumbar vertebrae. Not much can be done about it. It will take 3 months to heal with rest, taking it easy and no heavy lifting. I knew that wouldn’t happen, so I asked if it would be better if my husband didn’t go back to work just yet. The doctor agreed, so he is not released to work until his next appointment on November 6th.

I have to believe all this has happened for a reason … a real chance for my husband to break free of this addiction. I didn’t have to text HIM that day from the doctor’s office. My sister would have come and stayed with me, or my best friend… but I texted HIM.

Part of me wanted to know if he cared enough to come home … if he would come rushing to my side in time of need. To be honest, I think I actually wanted to be sick enough to scare the crap out of him – and thought that would somehow make him suddenly realize how important I am to him; that he didn’t want to continue to destroy our marriage. I feel somewhat guilty about his wreck and for asking him to come home, but even that emotion is stifled by the addiction.

Such irrational, selfish thinking in my little pity party – I know better. I’ve just been getting impatient wanting things to change – wanting HIM to change.

Anyway, I told him I feel like this is our best and possibly only opportunity to get this thing turned around, and he seems to feel the same way, just not as intensely as I do – as usual.

We’ve talked and realize that we both want our marriage to survive and to do that he has to get a job here, and we have to get some counseling. He, of course needs therapy for his CG addiction, I need counseling for a host of issues, and WE need couples counseling to see if there is a marriage to save. Our first appointment is in the morning. I will be praying tonight that the counselor is right for us.

What a mess we are! It’s so strange to have all this rumbling underneath the surface, and yet we go out with friends, visit with family, go shopping … sometimes I just shake my head.

I am hoping for the best tomorrow but trying not to expect too much.

Hope to see some of your posts soon.

Adele

[velvet]

Dear Adele

Like you I have been wondering where everybody is. I know it is more difficult to write after some time without having someone to respond to or something to say.

I don’t find your thinking irrational or even laced with self-pity; I think that many of us will have wanted to be sick enough for a spark of attention that could lead to hope that our loved one cared more for us than their addiction. The CG’s addiction will normally override the non-CG’s feelings when they are coping with illness, birth, death, or any other hiccoughs in life when the non-CG cries out for support. The gamble is usually the CG’s way to cope with such cries. Your husband reacted well.

I believe, therefore, that your CG did show true concern for you and I hope you are over your pneumonia.

I am not sure that things like this happen for a reason but I do see opportunity in your illness and his accident. It has given you both precious time to talk and time for his mind to think of other things apart from his addiction. Nobody knows when true recoveries start but start they do.

I shall look forward to hearing about your first counselling meeting and I hope the counsellor is just right for both of you.

Your comment about the rumbling underneath the surface has struck me many times over the years. I remember being told in Gamanon that alcoholics fall over, drug addict’s eyes reflect their addiction but you can pass a CG in the street and never know – likewise you can never know if people you associate with are carrying heavy burdens too. I suspect there are many heads shaken every minute of every day.

It was so good to see your post. It is so good to hear positive rumblings in your post.

As Ever

[vera]

Hi Adele!
I hope you are recovering from your pneumonia and that your hubby is taking it easy after his accident. I do believe things happen for a reason even though we may not be clear as to the reason at the time, or indeed ever. I doubt if there is any such thing as a co-incidence!
I can fully relate to “acting normally” while in the throes of addiction. As a CG, I learned well how to adjust my mask to appear normal and managed to fit in to lots of situations where I felt a total outsider and most of what was happening went over my head. Gambling numbs a CG and it most likely does the same to the people close to the CG. My question is which came first, the need to gamble or the need to wear masks?
Just being the Devil’s advocate here, for the sake of wider debate!
I would be very interested to hear how your marriage counselling goes. In hindsight, it is something we, as a couple should have done many years ago, but we survived without it….(Many people “survived” concentration camps too!)…I go to Gambling Counselling, but I have reservations about it….My husband went berserk when he heard the counsellor had requested to see him. His reaction is unprintable. He clearly says that my gambling has absolutely nothing to do with him, and scoffs at the idea of “recovery”, but having said that, he has claimed all throughout our marriage that most issues and conflicts are one sided . In other words , he lives in denial and I get the blame when things go wrong…most of the time refuses to communicate directly. He waits for weeks or months and when least expected he lashes out in rage (usually in company) and betrays or belittles me by making paranoid or sarcastic comments about my “infamous” past!
Very supportive!!! Just the excuse a CG needs to run for cover! lol!
Anyway, life goes on and I need to remind myself that I alone am responsible for the damage gambling created in my life, and believe you me, to describe that damage as painful is a gross understatement!
So, on that note, I will sign off by saying
“Just for today, I will not gamble!”because gambling solves none of Life’s problems!
Keep posting Adele. I pray for you every day!

[vera]

thinking about you Adele and wondering how did your counselling go?

[vera]

thinking about you Adele and wondering how did your counselling go?

[adele]

Hi Vera,

Your kind thoughts and especially your prayers for me are very much appreciated.

The counseling session started with filling out lots of paper work. Then we spent about an hour with the therapist. She has her doctorate and is trained and experienced in addiction counseling in general, but not specifically in gambling addiction. She also does PTSD, couples and kids counseling. In fact, I was impressed that she received a special medal from the Army for her work with the soldiers the movie Black Hawk Down was based on.

This first session was lots of Q&A: All the basics – age, where we were born, siblings, etc. – then more personal things – questions about drug and alcohol use, abuse, temperament, thoughts of suicide, and physical, mental or emotional issues. She did ask my husband about what kind of gambler he was, and how much we thought he had gambled since it became a problem – his estimate was half what mine was. When she asked what he wanted to get out of counseling, his answer was to get our marriage back on track and maybe even better than before. Interesting ….

It was awkward for both of us – I became a little emotional, he was mostly stoic as is his way. He is never one to show emotion. But he is trying to be very open to this, and genuinely seems to want to make a change. I think his mind is still muddled though … he can’t seem to think clearly or think things through – at least in my perception. Of course I can’t remember past the end of my nose most of the time either, so what do I know?

Towards the end she asked that we hold hands and gaze into each other’s eyes … eeesh. My husband (bless his heart) took my hands and began staring at me, but it freaked me out a little (lol), and I told her I was not ready for anything like that just yet.

She asked that we give her at least 3 sessions (she must have sensed my skepticism), and almost as an afterthought (I asked if there was something we could work on until the next session), she asked us to write down the things that first attracted us to the other … said it would be important for us to reconnect. I thought this was lame until I started doing it … She also asked my husband to write down what things made him want to gamble (I think, I can’t remember for sure now – this was right after the gazing thing).

Anyway, we have an awful lot to work on – his compulsive gambling, our indifferent marriage, individual issues … We are both therapy virgins, but we are both open to this (possibly him more than me to my surprise), and hoping for some solutions.

We go back on Friday, scheduled 3 appointments for next week, and 2 the week after trying to get as many in as possible before he goes back to work next month.

Vera, I wish we had gone to marriage counseling a long time ago. Our marriage has been troubled over the years but never anything like what yours sounds like. I’m so sorry that your relationship with your husband is so combative and non-supportive. I hope it isn’t always like that and the two of you share some good times together too. You deserve to be happy Vera – you really do.

Thanks for reading and caring.

Adele

[san250]

Well done on getting through your first session. I’m sure most of the therapy is very similar and follows ‘models’. Having been through marriage counselling and individual counselling, I believe its important to listen to your body, it already knows the answers. I’d like to share a little of my experience with you. In my marriage counselling we found out the ‘background’ to our problems, where family scripts were written (how we follow patterns set down in families), it was interesting to find out how we think and follow certain things. Communication, how we ‘playout’ roles, he says one thing, I do the same thing everytime, that sort of thing. I found the marriage counselling interesting but seemed to deal with his problems more than mine. We were ‘set’ homework and this was hard, again after 24 year we were set in our ways. For me, more progress was made when I went to counselling on my own. I was able to open up more, and it certainly challenged how I was feeling and enabled me to move on faster. One thing that really helped us, was to arrive and leave the counselling by separate means. This enabled us to have the space we needed, firstly to get our heads ready for the session and especially afterwards when your head is spinning with all the information and observations. Sometimes we would meet on neutral ground, a restaurant or cafe, 30 minutes after the session to discuss what had happened, sometimes not. For me, I believe, the counselling helped to unravel the ‘spaghetti’ that our marriage had become. Our therapist described it as a plate of spaghetti and we were there to pick the strands out She said we had to become separate people to decide whether we would come back together on a different footing, with new communication techniques in place, or to decided if we were going to go our separate ways. For us this process took 9 months. I wish you lots of luck and am sending you lots of strength, take care, San xx

[adele]

Dear San,

Thank you, thank you so much for sharing your thoughts and experience in counseling! I feel less fearful, or less reluctant, or something … I’m not sure. I just know I could not articulate what I wanted to get out of our counseling (other than of course for my husband to get control of his addiction) because I had not one clue of what to expect from it.

We’ve been making spaghetti for 25 years too. His problem gambling is just the latest and most damaging issue to date, and probably, in part, a result of all the other unresolved issues over the years.

What you said about becoming separate people first … I was shaking my head up and down as I read that. I think that’s what has been happening with me since coming to this site. I’m beginning to see things differently, and see myself differently (albeit ever so slowly), even thinking of myself as single at times. And I don’t think my husband knows who he is any more. So I truly hope this is the beginning of his recovery and finding himself again.

Having read your post, I know I will need to really let myself be open to this counselor, and, as V says, “push things around” that she says in order to start unraveling the spaghetti …

I also appreciate your idea about going to the sessions separately. Based on our one experience Monday, I can see how that would be beneficial. There was a brief awkward silence at first when we got back in the truck – then there was this awkward, forced conversation … neither contributed anything positive to the experience.

I’m actually kind of looking forward to tomorrow’s session with her. Thanks again for sharing San and thanks for your well wishes. I hope to hear something good and positive from you on your thread soon.

Adele

[nomore 56]

Hi Adele, I thought about replying to you long and hard. Your post reminded me on the mess on my own plate of noodles. I agree with San that it would help both of you to become separate or rather to become single individuals (not as in single per se). Just like with you and your hb, we too had a lot of issues to work out other than the gambling. The addiction of course was the tip of the iceberg and what led to it caused a lot of other problems in return. It was all a great big nasty enmeshment of this and that. To untangle the web will probably take a lot of work and time for both of you. Just from my own experience I am wondering, if it will do you guys a lot of good to jump right into the middle of the pasta dish. It seems like your hb has a lot of unresolved issues besides the gambling and maybe, just maybe it would be a good idea for him to get some gambling specific counseling in addition to your marriage therapy. I can only speak from my own experience but when my hb went to the last inpatient treatment program he was finally after all those years able to uncover what actually “made” him need the addiction as a crutch to deal with his past. It is all intertwined and one thing led to another. If there would have ever been a chance to keep our marriage alive, it would have been AFTER he completed the program and started to really work on his recovery. Before that, it would have been all smoke and mirrors. As long as the addiction was alive and well, he would have agreed with everything a counselor would have said or suggested. He would have never addressed what really caused his pain all those years, mostly because he wasn’t really aware of it and not ready to deal with it in any way. Again, that is just my opinion. I also believe firmly that it takes a counselor who is familiar with gambling addiction to uncover the real truth, so to speak. Maybe like removing the sauce before the spaghettis can be untangled? As long as you both feel comfortable with the counselor right now and feel like you are making progress, it is a start. I learned in my training that addiction treatment comes first because an addict does have the capacity to see things clearly before starting recovery. That is the reason why a mental health evaluation oftentimes has to wait until the addiction is addressed, especially when it comes to certain mood disorders. I’m rambling here so I better stop now. LOL. Anywho, I wish you luck, you are tough and at the very least the counseling will help you along on your road to your own recovery!! Happy full moon today….

[adele]

Hey NoMore –

Good to hear from you. The moon was beautiful that night! We left my mom’s house just after dark so we saw it when it was still big and looming in the sky – harvest moon – just gorgeous.

I think you’re right that he needs to get his addiction issues addressed before we can really delve in to our relationship issues. He has gone by himself today, and I am going to begin seeing the same therapist alone too, as I have issues of my own. Unfortunately there are no gambling addiction specific therapists in this area since there are no casinos within 300 miles. Sadly, I suspect there is a need – just no awareness.

Hopefully this will be a start. He will be home for another few weeks and will be seeing her 2 times each week.

Once again I am hopeful. He says he has not had the urge to gamble in a good while since being home with me and away from the temptation. And we are more relaxed with each other and enjoying a few simple pleasures.

Thanks for sharing and for your encouragement! Take care…

Adele

[nomore 56]

Hi Adele, the moon sure was pretty but I’m glad it’s over. I react really badly to it every month and when it is one of those special moons, white, orange, hanging low, you name it, it gets lots worse. Restless nights, bad dreams, the whole 9 yards. Anyways, it is upsetting that gambling addiction is still so underestimated and undertreated when it affects so many people and more and more each day. I think it is a great idea to see the therapist separately, you can say things you might not want to say in front of your hb and vice versa. As long as you both are in motion with the issue and get something positive out of the sessions, it is all for the better. Anything will help. On a side note, here is something interesting re the fact that gambling is still the “silent disease” and lots of people don’t even believe it exists. I watch this Dr. Phil character a lot cz I’m interested in what he is doing and how and so on. Have been tuning into his shows for some yrs now and in all this time, he has NEVER addressed gambling. To the contrary, he seems to avoid the topic with a vengeance. Whenever it is brought up, he ignores it and changes the subject. Makes me want to challenge him, cz he would be the one person to reach millions of people and raise awareness. Hm, tempting….LOL
Keep going, nothing can stop you but yourself!

[adele]

He NM,

I have actually thought about writing to his show, or at least I did think about it – especially early on when I was such an emotional mess. And I remember you mentioning it jokingly in a post…

I do think it would be a fabulous idea tho … simply to raise the awareness – like you say, not so much for help personally.

I wonder what kind of appeal/letter/ presentation would get the attention of his producers?

Hmmm ….

Adele

[adele]

I have just returned from my first one-on-one counseling session and I am alone at home, so I wanted to think and “reflect” a bit as suggested by San.

My husband went for his first one-on-one yesterday, and we talked briefly about it last night (sorry Velvet, I had to ask a few questions). I am concerned that this therapist does not have any experience counseling compulsive gamblers, and so far – based on the 3 sessions we’ve had with her – It seems I know a whole lot more about dealing with it than she does (not judging, not on an ego trip). My husband said she seems to be “winging it” as far as a treatment plan, and that she basically talked about what things he could do in place of gambling. He’s not sure if he thinks she’s going to help him or not, but wants to give her a few more sessions – which I am certainly willing to do if he is.

When I got there, after pleasantries, I first expressed my concern at her lack of specialized training in compulsive gambling (which I was told she had when I made the first appointment) for which she apologized (unnecessarily – I did not put it to her in that way). I asked if she had some form of treatment in mind for him (she didn’t), and if he is supposed to be working on or thinking about anything in between sessions (he isn’t). She stressed that it was important for him to find something positive to do in place of gambling (DUH!) and that I needed to understand that I could not make him want to stop gambling (I assured her I absolutely understand that).

She said he ok’d her to discuss with me that he feels like I am his conscience when he is with me and he doesn’t think about gambling or have the urges, but when he is on his own, he feels free to do whatever he wants to do. At some point in this conversation, she told me (prefacing with a pause “I’m just going to say this because I’m pretty outspoken” and proceeded to say something along the lines of “nagging him would probably do more harm than good.” So now I’m thinking Good Grief! With all the things I’ve told her, shouldn’t she have a better idea of where I’m at in my recovery; that I’ve already been there and done all that? So I explained briefly my journey since finding GT and where I think I am on the learning curve – that I virtually stopped nagging months ago, that I put up barriers to protect myself as much as possible, stopped thinking about his addiction all the time, and started trying to think of myself instead.

At some point I discussed a list of concerns that I felt, knowing my husband, would keep him from making any progress in recovery if not addressed in his therapy; things like his inability to be mindful or introspective (he doesn’t think about it unless he is ‘forced’ to talk about it or I have reminded him of a group chat, etc.), or his lack of respect for money (he loves to spend money on anything), and his issue with impulse control (going to dating sites and the porn). I told her that, in general, I am not anywhere near convinced that he is committed to this. In this discussion she talked about the Meyers Briggs personality stuff and drew a diagram of where she thought (right now) he and I were: I am extroverted, he is introverted – I am intuitive, he is sensing (hands on – so probly won’t do the mindful thing), we are both thinkers more than feelers, and I am judging (not judgmental but more ‘take charge’ and quicker to make firm decisions) and he is more perceiving. The purpose of this, I think, was to give me an idea of what she was considering and how she was approaching his treatment. And she is fairly spot on in her assessments of us, so I am a little reassured with this.

She has ask several times, and did so again today, what we do together that is fun; when was the last time we did something we both enjoy – trying to establish a reconnection. So today I just told her that we have done some of those things – played golf, activities with our grandkids and friends – but that my heart can’t be in it when our relationship feels so disingenuous. She asked why? I said because for the most part, I do not trust him or anything he says. She seemed surprised and said “So… you’ve really built up some walls to protect your emotions haven’t you?” I tried to explain to her that it was really much more than that. I told her since I began my recovery, and with knowledge and support from this site, I have changed: I have slowly, and reluctantly, begun to accept the idea that I may have to leave my husband; that at times I’ve thought of myself as single; and that I am beginning to think I will be okay if that happens .

I told her about how poorly I was coping with his addiction before I found GT; about how initially the theory of separating the addiction/beast from the man I knew as my husband allowed me to better deal with his outrageous lies and behaviors. I sensed she was dismissing this thinking (she’s a doctor so I’m not really surprised) because her response to this was (and THIS is where I think her inexperience in CG became glaringly obvious to me) something like “Here’s the thing with addiction … If he was truly addicted he would gamble all the time, and he doesn’t do that. He has stopped gambling.” My mind started reeling and I don’t think I heard what she said for the next minute or so. I said “Wait a minute … just because he says he’s stopped doesn’t mean he has.” She questioned my disbelief. I told her he could be using his phone or laptop – he has done this and lied many times before. She asked if I thought he was gambling. I said “I don’t know – maybe … probably”. She asked if I questioned him about it. I said “Not really, it would do no good. If he was gambling he would lie about it, and if he said he wasn’t I wouldn’t believe him anyway.” She seemed a bit astounded by this … ugh… I want a CG therapist! Somewhere in this part of the conversation she asked if he knew what I expected of him. I said “I’m not sure. I’m not always sure I know what I expect of him. He does know that I will not live with the addiction in my life and that it is up to him to change – and I have to believe that I will know it when he does and will want to take a leap of faith.” I think she got it because she said “So you’re looking for some form of catharsis from him right?”

I went in today intending to determine if I thought she was going to be able to help my husband with his gambling addiction. I took my copy of the UCLA Individualized Treatment Plan for Problem Gamblers and showed it to her toward the end of our session at an appropriate time in the conversation (if such a time exists when it might appear you are telling the doctor how to do her job). She seemed genuinely appreciative asking if she could copy it, but then said to me (hopefully teasingly) as she copied it “I see you’re making the same mistake a lot of new therapists make in attempting to make a treatment plan one size fits all.” In the end she assured me she welcomed anything that would help and then said to me “You probably know more about this problem right now than anyone in this town.”

I can see therapy is going to be challenging for me, and after today I suspect the therapist thinks I’m going to be a challenge for her! I am going to give us time to get to know each other’s personalities. I’m going to give her time to better assess our needs separately and as a couple. And I’m going to give her a chance to gain some insight into compulsive gambling – I think I made my concerns about this pretty clear today.

Well, I’ve been reflecting now for over 2 hours, and I’m so glad I did! (Thanks San) These discussions aren’t exactly in the order they occurred, and certainly not precisely stated here because I have such a horrible memory – but I remembered a lot more as I was typing than I would have if I’d waited until later to do this. And there’s no shortening it for the purpose of posting, so don’t worry a bit if you skipped to the bottom after the first paragraph! HA

Adele

[velvet]

Dear Adele

I never doubted you would ask a few questions, I would probably have done the same. I know that people who have been in counselling often want to dissemble their thoughts quietly and not physically share them for a time, if ever. I can only ‘suggest’ ways of doing things – I cannot tell you what to do.

One of the biggest lessons I have learned was that CGs have to learn to trust us. The non-CG believes, I think, that everything hinges on whether they can trust a CG in early recovery or not but how does a CG know they can trust a non-CG? Having run rings round a non-CG loved one for so long the CG will have heard the responses, arguments, theories so many times about how we think their addiction affects them, what it does to us and what they should do to find happiness – after all what could be simpler than ‘ just don’t bet?’ You are now aware about so many things that you were not aware about before, you know addiction is not simple and you are therefore forming new thoughts and opinions – you will have changed.

Your husband’s mind will be full of ‘his’ thoughts and ‘his’ hopes. For him to understand that ‘you’ have changed is, in my opinion, one thought too many. Both CG and non-CG have old behaviours and neither knows when a true change takes place.

Your husband has talked about the possibility of his counsellor winging it and he is not sure if she is going to help him or not. Two thoughts – a good counsellor would not reveal a plan of campaign; your husband will be the one to put the work in on his recovery, she can’t do it for him. She can only help him if he genuinely wants to change and this is something that nobody can know at this stage.

Your therapy experience is a different matter. You are seeing the same counsellor and I would have thought this must lead to a conflict of interest. For instance the rehab my CG went was not interested in my thoughts or experience – they were there for him and I would/could have clouded/screwed the issues.

You are terrifically aware and I suspect, from what you have said your counsellor is not as clued up as you. I hope she will be pouring over CG books and discussing gambling addiction with other counsellors at this very moment. She will have a lot of other experience to draw from and if she puts it together with the new concept of gambling addition she, hopefully, will be more rounded.

She has asked you questions and I hope you will give them some thought. What seems an irrelevant question often opens a door of thought as yet unexplored. Your husband possibly has not said what questions she asked him and more importantly how he dissembled his replies.

If the counsellor is acting as a go-between then in my opinion, she might help with your marriage but addiction is something else completely.

Gamanon members are generally not allowed into GA meetings unless they are specified as being mixed for a reason, such as a pinning. The reasoning behind the separation is so that there is a freedom to tell the truth, probably for the first time, with those who really understand what they are saying and without fear of retribution from those who have been affected by their addition. I know I would not have been able to sit with my CG when he first went to GA or when he went into rehab without putting in the most almighty oar that would have pushed him overboard. CGs understand CGs. Non-CGs understand non-CGs. We talk differently, we want different things, and we believe different things. It is my belief CGs and non-CGs need to find their recovery separately.

I see us walking on different roads but parallel, sometimes close, sometimes miles apart. I see us walking towards the same goal but achieving it in different ways. I believe that, eventually, because we have walked on different paths, with different pot-holes, different cross-roads, different views, we finish with a different story to tell. At the end, if all goes well, journeys can be shared, the new concepts learned along the way can be explored and relationships can go on, or not, with a greater understanding.

I am going to stop there because I have a strong feeling that I am going to get a strong reply. There are tons of topics in your post and I want to know that I am going in the right direction even if it means my ears being blistered. I so wish we could sit and talk, there is so much to say.

Well done on putting your reflections down so succinctly. I didn’t skip to the bottom but I haven’t addressed a tenth of what you have said. You are doing terrifically.

V

[san250]

‘My sweet parents raised us to have good morals, kind hearts, caring spirits, strength of character, and unconditional faith in God.’

Don’t stop being who you are … ever… just be mindful not all people are like this.

Hope to ‘see’ you later..

San xx

[adele]

Well V, there’s nothing I’d like more than to sit and talk to you – I suspect we’d need coffee, meals, wine, possibly deoderant, and who knows, maybe a sorting hat and broomsticks! (I really want to hear more about that)

I will be reading your response many times before I post again, but I have to tell you now that I had already started another post because I’ve been mulling this all over in my head. **San – I’m amazed you caught my draft before I copied it to my desktop and deleted it to work on later! I appreciate your sage advice and do need reminding of that sometimes.

You have given me more to think about V, and this has helped tremendously already to sort some things out because my thoughts are in line with what you’ve said!

I have a busy few days ahead of me, but I hope to post tonight while things are still swirling in my head. We are supposed to see the counselor together on Friday.

Thank you, thank you, thank you for always being there for me.

Adele

[tarasweettara]

Since you have been so kind to me and replied to my thread and made me feel so welcome, I found your thread and read the whole thing. When I say I understand, I mean I really feel your pain and I am the child of a compulsive gambler. I remember my mom telling my sisters and I “never marry a man that tells you he once lost his stereo or his car in a card game”. My mom has never and will never be a gambler. My dad is a gambler of the worst kind. I remember my youth and the arguing between them. Every Friday (payday) when my dad didn’t come home, my mom would put his plate in the fridge. We would eat without him and she would load us up in her car. We would go to every bar she knew he frequented and look for his truck. When she finally found him, which she usually did, she would leave us in the car and go in to beg him to please leave before he spent his entire check. Often he wouldn’t leave, but would give her a few dollars so she could get some groceries.
She kept a calendar just for him. She would write down what time he came home. Sometimes he dissapeared for days. There were no casino’s and no legalized gambling in PA back then so he would have to find some underground gambling clubs or travel. My mom cried alot. We worried alot.
She kicked him out and let him back time and time again. She went to GA and Joined Gamanon. She took him to the priest. She went to counseling with him.
Guess what? He never did stop. Never. He can’t and he is done trying. My mom loves him terribly. They are still together.
She separated the finances. She refused to give him money whe he spent all of his. She went to school and got herself a good job and us kids never wanted for anything. She has been an angel.
My dad is at the casino right now. They are both retired. She still argues with him, but she has come to some sort of acceptance. He is old and set in his ways. He loves her and she has done what she needs to to protect her finances. They spend time together in healthy ways, but he still gambles. When he is winning he is good to all of us. When he is losing he is mean and miserable.
Then there is me. I swore up and down I would never gamble because of the pain it caused our family.
I love my Dad. I admire my dad but I am breaking the cycle. My sister has struggled with gambling and my other sister with addiction. I really believe there is a strong genetic component to these addictions. I should have known better.
I hope you are able to work through these things. Sometimes love is not enough. Sometimes it is.

[sirena0215]

Hi Adele,
I am on a break right now and will respond to your post on my thread in more detail, but wanted to drop a quick note.

I nearly choked on my piece of fruit when I read your therapist was making copies of your UCLA CG/PG literature and imagining your outspoken self holding back at that moment 🙂 I can only imagine your dissatisfaction? frustration? at this point, but am impressed with your stick-to-itiveness.

When I was looking for a CG therapist, I saw a few licensed therapists with Gambling Addiction training that offered Skype sessions in my state and wonder if anyone in your state is offering that service?

Be well my friend,
– S

[sirena0215]

So glad you mentioned your Myers Briggs, Adele. I’m pulling my report now and finding the managing change section very helpful.

I’m an INTJ, with high out of preference expressiveness. My company paid for a step II assessment five years ago and this is a really good one to have if you get a chance, since it drills down a bit.

[adele]

Hey Sirena,

Yep, we’re done with this therapist. I think your idea of some sort of online therapy program using Skype is going to be our best hope for qualified counseling. I have found one place in particular (so far) that looks promising.

Thanks so much for the suggestion. I have learned SO MUCH in the search!

Hope you are doing well,

Adele

[monique]

I have been going through your posts and wanted to make one or two comments about therapists. No individual therapist can know about every human situation in detail, but a well-qualified and experienced one will listen very attentively to the client and try to help that client do the psychological work they need to do.

Addictions always make therapy with anyone more complex. As you know, an addict is very manipulative and some try to ‘use’ therapy/the therapist, whilst not being ready to really enter the process of change. I think this is one reason why it is often recommended that the addiction issues are dealt with first and alone – so there is less chance of the addiction wrecking all the other work – or at least greatly undermining it. Of course, no one is simply an addict; each person is a whole human being with a mixture of needs, but the focus can centre on the addiction with an addiction specialist.
Also, effective therapy is usually long-term – it isa big part of life’s work, not a peripheral thing. When there is a lot of complexity, things have to be broken down into smaller components. A relationship counsellor will be trained to focus on ‘the relationship’ and it would be difficult to immediately work with a serious, individual addiction too.
It is quite late here, so I hope I am being coherent. You are a very strong and resourceful person and also very well-informed, so forgive me if I am just going over stuff you have already worked through. Take anything that is useful and ignore the rest.
Very best wishes,

Monique

[berber]

Dear Adele,

I finally came ’round to reading your latest posts and about your visit to the

therapist. I feel very connected to you, as I have learned so much about Gambling

Addiction thanks to this website and it can be difficult to explain to others what we know. The counselor my husband is seeing seems a bit ignorant too sometimes but he thinks she’s very smart and he helps her so I don’t voice my opinion.

I too wish I could join in a live meeting with y’all with snacks, juice (instead of wine) and just talk, listen, laugh, cry and give you a big hug.
Keep up your emotional recovery, dear Adele, you are doing really well!

XXX
B.

[adele]

Berber – thank you for your sweet post. I could probably use one of your big hugs today!

Velvet, I appreciate the talk in Group today – the hour went too quickly.

In response to your last post here: My husband and I talked about the issue of trust – on both sides. He is fully aware that it will take a great deal of time for me to completely trust him again. And I am aware that every time I have a mini melt down over something (which happens less often) it makes him less likely to be open with me.

We have enjoyed him being home for so long. Things aren’t perfect of course, but we are so much easier with one another. The longer he is away from the possible quick trip to the casino, the better he is. He says he has not gambled online since before the wreck on September 26, and there are no casinos here at home, so I believe he has not gambled or played the online slots in almost 2 months. We talked some today after Group about his boredom and what he can do to fill the void, but no solutions yet.

We have talked more during this time than probably ever in our marriage – about things that matter I mean. The counseling was an impetus for our communicating in a different way – although the counselor was terrible and we are looking for another.

I was certainly more aware than she was, and as I told you in group, I have been doing a good deal of reading and exploring other options for gambling therapy. I am also giving thought to the suggestions to consider separate counselors. Our paths to recovery ARE separate: I’m really beginning to understand that.

Your post has helped me tremendously Monique. I feel validated in expecting our therapist to listen and care, and to be competent. Instead, she ‘didn’t have time’ to read anything I gave her or to look in to gambling addiction – and she talked too much; mostly about herself.

In my last one-to-one with her, she talked about her mother, her mother’s house, her love for everything organic, and on and on. She spent the last 10 minutes of the session on her computer showing me a “Green” hotel website that was her favorite place to stay. It was very awkward – like she didn’t know what to say to me or how to start being therapeutic, so she just chatted about nothing. I went home and cancelled the rest of our appointments. My husband did not think she was very engaged either, but he was going anyway just in case she got better.

You have also, and especially, helped me to realize the complexity of our situation. With your insight, and our bad experience, I now think a good counselor might know better than to try and work with both of us on everything at once.

I think you and Velvet are right: He needs to work on his addiction separate from everything else, and without me.

And we obviously need to work on our relationship.

But I also realize that I have much to work on myself; things I’ve mentioned before – my disorganized, messy house, my weight, my chronic lack of discipline. One of the things my husband said in counseling was that he would like to come home to a clean, organized home – not accusingly, just honest. I’ve not always been this way – at least not to this extent – but it has not been as a result of his addiction. It’s gone on for many years. And I have to do something about it. So it’s probably time for me to start paddling my own boat again huh?

I don’t exactly know how to get started in earnest. I used to at least have spurts of effort to accomplish things. I’d get motivated to work on a project or clean house , and I’d pour myself into it almost to the exclusion of everything else.

I’m realizing that I have poor coping skills – just like my cg husband.

For instance, when my father’s COPD got really bad in 2000, I started a major landscaping project in my front yard. I dug out new, elaborate curvy flower beds down both sides and the middle of the yard, using cut landscape timbers and truckloads of river rock (hand-picked) to edge the beds. A neighbor had busted up concrete in their front yard so I hauled these huge pieces home and made curvy walkways. I was obsessed with the project – hanging lights in the trees so I could work through the night when I was on a roll. My neighbors must have thought I was nuts – and I was a little. All the while I was trying to take care of my dad, and both my in-laws who were also in bad health – taking them to doctor’s appointments, shopping, whatever they needed.

This was my excuse back then to quit working full time. Both our parents had some serious health issues, and my brother – who was 48 at the time – suffered a stroke. (Two years later he suffered another more debilitating stroke and could no longer work at his job.) So I was always taking off work to take somebody somewhere or to do something for someone. I justified quitting because 1) family was more important than work, and 2) I knew my job performance was suffering with the distractions and absences.

Somewhere in the middle of starting and stopping the landscaping project over several years, my father’s COPD worsened, and we were told by Hospice that he was in the last stages of the disease and we could expect that he might not be with us in 6 months. I dealt with my fear and grief by going back to working hard, long days and nights on that never-ending landscaping project.

Not long after we got the news of my father’s prognosis, my brother cashed in his 401K (after his 2nd stroke) and bought a house that needed a lot of work. His wife was mentally ill (classic Borderline Personality Disorder was my best self-educated guess), and their family terribly dysfunctional. I think they were on the verge of being evicted from their rental. I knew he couldn’t get the house ready by himself, and no one was else was likely to, or capable of doing the things that needed to be done, so I dropped what I was doing here and went there to help him. After a month or so, I stopped coming home during the week (they lived about 20 miles away) and slept on an air mattress at the house – working from the time I got up until I went to bed at night – still running the parents and my brother around as needed.

My sweet husband would come over most evenings to help, doing all the electrical work while we did the construction. He even spent a number of weekends on that stupid air mattress just to be with me. He never begrudged me the time I was spending with my brother, even though I was neglecting him terribly. He has always supported me in my crazy, headlong endeavors (and sadly there have been many others similar to this), almost always without complaint.

When I look back I have to wonder why he didn’t complain. Why didn’t he eventually point out the ridiculousness of my actions and insist that I moderate my behaviors and pay a little more attention to him? If anyone is still reading this ramble and has any idea or understanding of either of our behaviors, I’d be very interested in hearing it.

After months of working on my brother’s house, I stopped staying over there and decided, for the most part, I had done enough – it was time for his family to pitch in and finish. I needed to get back to my life.

My father-in-law was suffering from chronic and intolerable neuropathic pain and my mother-in-law’s Parkinson’s and Rheumatoid Arthritis were exacerbated by the stress. Daddy was being tended to at home by the angels on earth that work for Hospice. My mother’s strength and her faith in God were amazing during this awful time.

Early on a Monday morning in March of 2001, having run out of morphine over the weekend, and in the delirium of pain, my poor father-in-law shot himself. In the raw anguish of the weeks that followed, strangely, my husband and I were closer than we’d ever been. He was not demonstrative, but he was vulnerable and in pain, and he turned to me for physical comfort and emotional support.

Two weeks later my father was taken to the Hospice House to be kept comfortable in his last days. My sisters and my mother and I spent the next 2 weeks mostly at the Hospice House and taking turns sleeping in the recliner by his bed. We were gathered around my sweet daddy, loving him and praying over him when he took his last breath.

The pain of losing my father was so deep I would not have thought it possible to hurt that much had I not just witnessed my mother-in-law suffer what I think must have been an even greater pain than mine. I desperately needed something from my husband – I don’t know what exactly, something real – but I don’t think I ever really felt comforted by him. Maybe it wasn’t possible. The closeness we felt after his father’s death was gone and I was left wanting.

My mother-in-law lived with us for a number of years prior to her death, and by the time we had settled her estate, sold her house and sorted through a 60 year collection of – well, everything, my house was an even bigger overflowing mess, and I was tired.

Somewhere along the way I lost interest in gardening and building things and being creative. I lost my passion for dancing, shooting pool and playing golf. I’ve not socialized much since quitting my job and I live with a non-communicative man. I’m not very comfortable in social settings anymore because I don’t have anything interesting to talk about – I’ve very nearly lost that skill. I’ve grown lazy and become an expert at doing nothing – or nothing important anyway – wasting so much time obsessively playing Guitar Hero, or Farmtown, or some other online game where nobody could give a flip about me.

I could just as easily have escaped to a casino if one had been handy.

I don’t exactly know why I’ve gone on like this, except that I’ve been soul searching and these are some of the things I’ve been thinking about and examining – what my part is in the mess we’ve made of our marriage. I feel disengaged so much of the time, and now that I have admitted as much to my husband, I must also admit that I have just as much to work on as him.

Adele

[monique]

Dear Adele
I am glad you have found valuable things in the posts you received, including my own. I am glad, too, that you have been able to write out these ‘meanderings’ – sometimes the writing out of things is in itself very therapeutic.

You have covered a huge range of issues, including loss, denial, exhaustion, health etc. You have some amazing strengths to have survived all this. I guess you need a step by step healing process.

The way your therapist behaved is, in my opinion, very poor practice. I think one of the most basic components of any therapeutic practice is attentive, client-centred listening. It makes me quite angry that you should have to listen to a therapist using your session-time to talk about herself. It is imperative that the therapist acts in a way that shows the session is not about her, but about the client. If a therapist can offer nothing other than listening, at least this means that she will have begun to understand the client and the client’s world. She can also begin to see whether she is the right person for the work in hand or whether she should refer on – and, if it is the latter, offer some guidance about other therapists. Listening in itself can be hugely helpful and is not harmful, unlike talking unwisely.

I wonder how you find therapists, where you are. Here (UK), there are various reputable directories, which list only well-trained people, who have committed also to ongoing professional development. One of them is BACP (British Assoc for Counselling and Psychotherapy), which does have an International search section, but I don’t know if it covers where you are. No doubt you have similar facilities? And it can be useful to get a recommendation from someone you trust.

With good wishes,

Monique

[madge456]

Wow Adele – I was just catching up on our posts and trying to digest it all. But briefly (since I have been sitting here way longer than I can!) I agree with Monique – No therapist should be talking about herself – they need to be client focused as she said and dealing only with the issues you bring up and that are “in the room”. If you do not feel this therapist is competent or a good match for you, you should feel free to switch and try to find a better fit. When I have looked for myself, I have interviewed 5 or 6 therapists over the phone and then go in for a trial session to see if I like them – it is not like buying a pair of pants – this is deep work and the fit and expertise and just overall “feel” need to be right, otherwise it is just a waste of time.
I hope I didn’t miss something in the posts and this is all old news – its hard to keep up with everything…
I also wanted to comment on your thoughts of :

“Somewhere along the way I lost interest in gardening and building things and being creative. I lost my passion for dancing, shooting pool and playing golf. I’ve not socialized much since quitting my job and I live with a non-communicative man. I’m not very comfortable in social settings anymore because I don’t have anything interesting to talk about – I’ve very nearly lost that skill.”

I totally relate to that – I feel similar in that I have devoted my life to my kids and husband and have lost myself along the way. BUT I do know I am still there – just like YOU are still there. All those passions are still within you waiting to be brought up. Its almost like finding an old scarf you once loved and saying “hey, i forgot about you,” and getting that happy feeling as you wear “your old friend”. Your skills, passions, ability to socialize are all still there – Maybe rusty, but there. I just wanted to say I relate to that line of thinking but know deep down that none of that is lost, just hibernating…
Here is to you, me and all of us here finding our passions again and doing what we need to for ourselves. I am not sure if that was helpful, but I hope it was.
As for therapist referrals, cant remember if you are in the US, but NASW (Nat; Assoc of Social Workers) has a referral list of therapists and what they specialize in – I have found that to be helpful before.
Sending love your way. Keep the faith.
XOXO
M

[velvet]

Dear Adele
What you have described, in my opinion, is the soul-searching that many F&F go through before they find their own recovery. There are areas though, where I think it is important to be mindful of how much guilt you should apportion to yourself for the situations in which you find yourself.
You have described enough painful experiences for you to feel as you do but at no time did you describe the person that you really are. You have been on this forum a short time and in that time your impact has been felt – you have made a difference to others and I know from experience that you will never know how many have taken comfort from you words because many read but never write. A lazy, ne’er-do-well could not achieve what you have done. Well done.

You haven’t lost yours skills, you have mislaid them. Maybe you won’t front another landscape project as you did before but the knowledge you gained from doing it will be immeasurable. I have changed my landscape too but I have never been as imaginative as to use hand-picked rocks from the river bed and I can’t string lights, although I do want them down my garden – how I wish you lived near me to give advice.

Recovery is like your landscaping. The lights were the final piece that lit up the whole project and your neighbours, I am positive, were no longer thinking you were nuts. You had the ability to plan and see it through – that ability is dormant, not dead. I think your line ‘all the while I was trying to take care of my dad and both my in-laws’ tells me all I need to know about your ability to care and organise.

I can’t see anything ridiculous in what you have described – I see a life. Your husband supported you in your endeavours, which I cannot see as crazy and the weekends on the air mattress sound like a couple sharing a life. Why would he point out the ridiculousness of your actions when they were never ridiculous? I am married to a DIY freak but I did not escape to an addiction. You are not responsible for your husband’s addiction.

You have definitely not lost your skill in being interesting but you have certainly lost your confidence in your ability to be so, but you are right – online gaming does not give a flip about you. When you start giving a flip about you then those around you will sit up and take notice.

You could have escaped to a casino but you didn’t and therein lies the difference and the reason why your recoveries should be separate. It is a sad fact that CGs have to accept they will always be CGs – there is no cure. It is a fact, in my opinion, that Adele does not have to accept that she is unsociable, uninteresting, not creative and unable to dance and enjoy golf.

I cannot tell you what to do but I would like to ask you to do something before we meet again and that is to take one of the thing that you used to do and do it, or something similar. I was totally into 10-pin bowling years ago but following my recovery I have taken up table-tennis. I took a deep breath to walk into the hall the first time but now, after a short time, I walk in and 20 people will shout ‘hi ……….’. I don’t need to be massively interesting – I just have to have a bat and join in. The friendships follow. When you have done it you will have something to talk about to your husband who struggles with communication. Whatever it is you do, it will give you something to talk about, it will blow the cobwebs away, physically enliven you and most importantly give you a confidence and self-esteem.

I am not allowed to set homework and I don’t want you to feel pressured – I am only making suggestions because I know you can change your life – you are one amazing, unique person. I know it – now you need to know it.

V

[adele]

Dear Monique and Madge,

I appreciate that you read my lengthy post. Posts like these (I’ve written so many!) are very definitely therapeutic for me – as is posting elsewhere on this site. Velvet told me once that she was always amazed at the insight that can be gained not only in writing for yourself, but in joining the groups and writing on someone else’s thread – and she’s so right!

I’ve looked inside myself more since writing on this site than I think I ever have in my life. It’s not always comfortable: Many times I’ve thought of leaving it on my laptop – and did a few times in the beginning. But I’ve come to feel safe here at GT – baring what I can get to, and knowing there is no judgment from readers because they truly understand the roller coaster ride.

I believe when I write openly and honestly as I am processing meaningful thoughts that something I say will resonate with someone and maybe help them in some way. I know this because I’m a reader here too, and I have benefitted tremendously not only from the thoughtful replies on my thread, but from the shared stories and experiences of this special community.

As for the therapist … I was rather angry myself, Monique, when I left her office that last time. So many of you on here have helped me to understand the attributes I want and expect in a counselor, and the things I probably shouldn’t and can’t expect. I am very grateful for all of your thoughts, encouragement and wisdom on this thing I knew so little about.

There is good news in our “Adventures in Therapy” saga: Around 11 this morning, as I was getting ready to look at the resources yall had mentioned (to find another therapist), I got a call from a counselor I’d spoken to last week. She was going to be out several days that week and could not fit us in, but she referred me to another counselor (who didn’t return my call). She was calling today to follow up and to let me know she had a noon cancellation … so off we went to see the new therapist!

I’ll write more on this later – I need to get dinner started.

Thanks so much,

Adele

[adele]

Well V – you went and made me cry again! HA

You are the cherry on top of a very good day …

Thank you for your uplifting and endless encouragement. I wish I could feel like I do right now every single day.

Make that 20 cherries.

Adele

[adele]

I am so happy and relieved to say I think we have found a very good “fit” with this new therapist. I am familiar with her from nearly 10 years ago when she counseled 2 troubled foster children we had taken in to our home, and I remember how wonderful she was with the kids.

She was wonderful with us too yesterday. She quickly assessed the immediate need to focus on giving him something to take with him since he is leaving for work in the next day or two, where he will be alone again, and the casino will be calling (and knowing that I can come back next week – which is exactly what I hoped for).

She asked him about his triggers – he said “She’s (me) not there and there’s nobody there to say no”. She said she understood that, but that wasn’t the trigger. She helped him to identify the trigger – “she’s not there so you are lonely.” She suggested that he remember the acronym HALT – Hunger, Anger, Lonely, Tired – to help him be aware of and recognize the things that might trigger an urge to gamble.

Then she went on to give the best description of triggers I’ve heard. She explained that when someone “acts out” (gambles) on a trigger, there is usually an “acting in” trigger that occurs before the full blown trigger – sometimes 2 or 3 days before: For example something in a conversation reminds you of a really good time you had once while gambling. If you’re Hungry, Angry, Lonely or Tired (HALT), you may allow yourself to dwell on this very subtle thought of a gambling related thing, and you may keep going back to it in your mind over the next few days.

This is the point where 1) recognizing the “acting in” trigger and 2) having a good coping skill ready is needed to avoid “acting out” on a trigger (gambling).

If you allow your mind to dwell on these subtle, “acting in” thoughts, they will trigger more serious gambling thoughts – which will eventually put in motion the “acting out” (gambling) on a trigger. By this time, most likely it is too late, and there’s no going back.

She told him ”Pay attention to what goes on inside you” and suggested that he keep a notebook to write down his thoughts and feelings periodically throughout the day to help him recognize and identify his triggers. He is struggling with that – keeps saying “I don’t know what to write.”

Velvet suggested in Group today he might just start with, “I am ________. I am a compulsive gambler. “ Then maybe add, “I did _______today.” Then, “I feel like ________ today.” And maybe, “I want to take control of my addiction and I see myself doing _____.” Of course it will be up to him to use this journaling tool or not, but I hope he does.

The therapist also suggested that he make a list of things that he can do when these recognized triggers occur – instead of “acting out” on the trigger. As I type this he’s across the room making his list …

(I would love to know what everyone thinks about this and any other ways to identify and head off triggers.)

She reiterated to both of us that I cannot do this for him; that he must begin looking inside himself for answers and solutions.

Her demeanor was completely professional but so very gentle and genuinely caring at the same time. My husband was able to relax somewhat and just be open with her. He told her he had gotten more out the 45 minutes we spent with her than he had at all the other sessions and GA meetings combined. It was amazing. I wanted to jump up from my chair and scream “YES!!!”

I have an appointment with her next week just for me – and she reserved judgment on whether to treat both of us – or not – until then.

I don’t intend to write every little detail of every therapy session (this is probably the last one I’ll be in regarding his addiction anyway), but this was all so very interesting, and made sense to me. I know it is not as clear for my husband – yet – and I am fully aware the wheels could come off the first bit of spare time he has once he gets back down there, but this last 7 weeks have me believing this is a real start for him on his recovery – which makes my recovery all the more rewarding.

Adele

[vera]

I’ve been following your story with interest, Adele! I’m so happy to hear you have found a therapist who is “tuned in!” I fully agree with that therapist when she refers to “acting in” and “acting out” Before a CG gambles , (myself),the thought is lurking in his/her mind for days. Personally, I think “triggers” are an excuse to gamble. CGs don’t need an excuse. The best way I can describe the “urge” (another description I dislike) is something like an itch . If you don’t scratch it, it goes away. Once we begin to scratch it goes crazy. I used to use the analogy of stepping on a bug before it bites you and listen to it squashing underfoot!
As a CG, I always have “fleeting gambling thoughts”. If I dwell for two seconds on a thought, it develops into a memory,then a longing or yearning sets in, then a plan formulates,and before I know it I feel a strong magnet sucking me towards the casino with the sounds and smells of the slot machines drawing me on so strongly that I feel a wind at my back and my car becomes like a magic chariot being jet propelled into a vacuum of no return. My counsellor often asks me what thoughts are in my head at this time.( The drive to my nearest casino is 45 minutes) It’s difficult to describe what happens on that journey, but I do know I manage to switch off all thoughts and feelings at this time. I use my cellphone as a distraction, either to text or play games , knowing that what I am doing is both illegal and risky. It serves to keep my rational mind from overcoming any non CG thought that might pop up. I think its all part of the compulsion or buzz. I hold the first note for the machine (€50)in my hand, park the car and my feet don’t touch the ground until I crash through the door that note slides into the first available machine and off I go to the land of Hope and Glory! (sic)
I won’t talk about the rest of the “event”Adele. You just asked for comments from others about the lead up to gambling.
One other point I would like to mention though, is that my gambling always takes place when I am alone and have money available.
Your husband is going to be alone soon.
Is there any way that he can NOT have cash or a credit card in his possession? Is there any possibility to have a fellow worker with him at all times, maybe someone who knows he is a CG? Can he be banned in advance from the casino? This is all of course assuming that he is not waiting and already planning on his chance to gamble which is very likely. Can you ask him if that is his plan?,
No matter what YOU do or say, Adele will not stop him if he wants to gamble but this may be a chance to get him to talk BEFORE the temptation takes hold.
I still hear vibes coming through , that he sees you as either the source of his actions or the person who could prevent him from “acting out”. I understand what he is saying, exactly but This is not the full story of course . It’s entirely up to him, and always will be.
A CG will go through flying bullets when that magnet draws us.
I write from very recent experience, I am sad and very ashamed to say.
I arrived home sometime in the middle of the night last night and as a last resort to raise cash, I have put my car for sale online.
This may seem like a trivial act, but after almost nine years work, it is the ONLY thing I have to show for my efforts. All my salary went on both gambling and debt repayments. I abstained from gambling for almost 14 months. Saved for that car and was proud to buy it for cash, but pride goes out the window when addiction takes over!
That’s the reality Adele.
CGs never win!
ps.The morale of the story, for Mr. Adele, if you’re finished making out your list of “do’s and don’ts”, which incidently won’t matter a fig, when the bug bites is “look before you leap!”
I love your posts Adele. You really are giving recovery your “all!”

[monique]

Hi Adele

Just a quickie to say I am pleased to hear that you had a good experience with this therapist. I hope that you and your husband will both find the right way forward.

Best wishes,

Monique, Gambling Therapy Team

[adele]

I put him on a plane this morning to go back to work, and cried as I drove away from the airport.

When he called this evening he was down and said he’d forgotten how small and depressing the rooms were at the man camp. And I told him I’d forgotten how big this house can get.

It will be lonely for both of us I’m sure.

He is different today than he was almost 8 weeks ago, and so am I. We have been given this time and the opportunity to reconnect with one another and to realize that we both have a lot of work to do.

He left here with $32 cash in his bill fold – and didn’t want more (that’s a first), and $29 on the Bluebird card (I will put small amounts of money on the card when he needs it). He says he likes the card and thinks it’s going to help him not to have cash (he cant use it at ATMs). And he put Betfilter back on his laptop. He took a small, plain spiral notebook for writing in (he picked it out himself V 🙂 ), 2 golf magazines, and a book on addiction by Stanton Peele.

So now it’s time to get to work on me …

Adele

[san250]

if it’s meant to be, it will work out Adele. I haven’t had a chance to read all your latest threads but I am pleased to read you have found another ‘in tune’ therapist and it sounds like some changes have been made.

When I read your latest thread it reminded me of my children going off to school for the first time. Between you, your husband has the tools to make it work and now it’s wait and see time.

I love you are now going to work on you, it will make you stronger for whatever is ahead. Just letting you know you’re being thought of. Take care. San x

[velvet]

Hi Adele
I am not surprised you cried on your way home from the airport – it was probably a release of different emotions and needed a good cry.

Your husband has gone away with tools he didn’t possess before, enough money to feed him and a back up to make sure he doesn’t starve for a few days. I am really pleased that ‘he’ bought the notebook – it is his personal journal and he made the effort to kick-start that journal by making the purchase. As you know so clearly now, I cannot tell you what to do but if it was me I would be careful not to nag too much about whether or not he has been writing his thoughts and actions for each day. It is time for him to grow up and do this for himself. I think that gentle interest is ok occasionally but I hope he realises that this journal is for him and his mind – it is not to set his worried wife’s mind at rest. The addiction to gamble is totally selfish and the early control of the addiction has to be completely selfish too. You do not need Dumbledore’s Pensieve to read his memory – you will get your answers in his behaviour because a person who puts this particular burden down is a lot lighter and it is visible.

However as you so rightly say ‘now’ is the time to work on you. I am hoping that in the short time you have not been visible on the site you have been doing things for yourself and enjoying the freedom of not having the addiction in your face. The time that your husband will be away on this trip will be a drop in the ocean compared to the time you will have gamble-free in the future so use it wisely.

I want to hear action on the home-front Adele – lovely gentle enjoyable action, nothing pressurised. This is ‘your’ time.

I know we will speak soon but in the meantime – my thoughts are with you

V

[velvet]

I have waited with bated breath for the update you recently implied would be in my sticky mit very shortly. Now with all my breath bated-out I hope to receive an update.

You are slipping down the forum which sometimes means that all is well. Does it????

V

[ell]

Adele i hope like velvet wrote you that everything is well ? I miss your posts , I really loved to see an upadate ?
When you read your thread i would like to send you from my heart all my best wishes to you and your family .
We are all here for you adele , i hope that everything goes well.
with all my love ell

[velvet]

Dear Adele
I have brought you to the top in the hope of an update.
I am hoping that the therapist that you have found is answering your needs and that is why you have gone so very quiet.
Something tells me we will hear from you again but until then, please be aware you are remembered, cared about and always welcome.
V

[madge456]

I was also thinking about you and hoping all is well –

Hopefully no news is good news?? I look forward to hearing about how it is all going – How the time apart has been and how you have been feeling. Just look at all the people checking on you! How lovely to have so much support!

xx
M

[velvet]

Hi Adele
It has been great to see you supporting others but I don’t think you will be surprised to see that I have dragged your thread up to the top.
I would love an update on ‘you’ either here on in a group. I have missed you.
Velvet

[adele]

I have been In Between long enough.

The movers are coming tomorrow to finish packing things in our house, and Monday morning they will load all of our belongings into a moving van headed to the beautiful Hill Country of Texas.

In December I decided to “take a leap of faith” and move down south where my husband has been working (and living) for more than 2 years.

To my knowledge he has not gambled since before his accident in late September, and I am encouraged and more hopeful than ever. However, he has not attended meetings, read any literature, written in a journal, or asked me to schedule any more appointments with our counselor, so I am well aware that he could, and likely will relapse. I’ve seen it said many times “abstinence is not recovery”.

We will be living close to San Antonio and should have many more resources available to us, including Gamblers Anonymous. I plan to find a Gamanon group as soon as possible, but it will be up to my husband to go to GA.

I have and will continue to maintain the barriers: He has no access to money except what cash I give him and what I put on his Bluebird card – which he cannot use at ATMs or online, and I can see every transaction. He has not complained about this arrangement and it is working well for us.

I have been purging my home of things that have been difficult to let go of for so long, and now I am working to release my mind and heart of the pain, anger and guilt I have lived with for too many years.

Trust may always be out of reach for me, at least the kind of trust I once had in my husband: It was so certain and comforting and safe. I’m not sure that kind of trust is necessary in this new relationship we seem to be developing. I don’t know … but I’m not going to worry about it today.

The time I have spent on this forum (almost a year now) has changed me. My spirit is awakening from near death, and I am so much stronger than I was. I am looking forward to a fresh start: New things, new friends, new adventures, injecting meaningful things into my life, and continuing to put the pieces together.

“Take one thing that you used to do and do it.” How many times have you said that Velvet? Next week I am buying a 2003 Harley Davidson 100th Anniversary Screamin’ Eagle Softail Deuce (that’s a motorcycle V – ha ha :), and I definitely plan to have fun blowing a few cobwebs away!

I am no longer waiting around for spontaneous combustion V … in fact, I’m about to light the match!

Thank you all for the support and encouragement you have given me over the last year – I don’t even want to think about where I might have been without you.

Adele

[san250]

What a wonderful post to wake up to and read! You’ve come so far and I wish you much happiness in your new home and new ‘life’. This is one occasion I wish we could share photos … would love to see your new Harley! Wishing you many many happy journeys. Very best wishes San xx

[velvet]

Dear Adele
What I love most about this wonderful post is that it is about ‘you’ and it is full of ‘your’ recovery which is the absolute best thing for you and your CG husband.
Gamanon will benefit so much from having you with them, you will uplift your fellows and give them hope which is a terrific way to take a bad experience and make it into something good. Don’t forget to always take support as well as give it though.
The barriers are right and good for both you and your husband – they create the ability to have a form of trust. You in control of the money and him having enough to live on is, in my opinion, an excellent way to start your new life together.
I purged my home 7 years ago when I moved, letting go of anything that cluttered my life and although I have gathered a little clutter since it is minimal. I too left behind the pain, anger and guilt – they didn’t belong in my brave new world.
I would be worried if you didn’t consider trust to be still out of reach – trusting too quickly helps neither of you. Your life will develop with a greater understanding and if that means that total trust remains always slightly out of reach it will not be the be all and end all and certainly not a concern for today.
Now for the nitty gritty. I may not be good on pop stars (apart from Roy Orbison and Elvis) but don’t ever doubt my ability to know what a Harley Davidson is. I’ll have you know I was a leather clad, ton-up girl who spent her holidays on the Isle of Man at the TT races and wore Castrol R for perfume. That free-spirited girl lives on in this ancient frame – so ya shucks boo, this old chick knows her motorbikes!
My dream was to own a Harley and to tour America and Australia with my husband strapped to the pillion but he freaked at the idea so I have a sneaking suspicion I can only do it vicariously through reading your fantastic post. Thanks for the trip of nostalgia.
I have calculated that when I run my Tuesday group it is 5pm in San Antonio so maybe one day when you are not gallivanting around you could pop in and leave me drooling at your exploits. On Thursday it is 4pm Texas time.
Strike that match and live – I could ask for nothing better for you and I believe for your husband too which also gives me enormous pleasure. It has been a complete joy and delight to ‘know’ you.
V

[madge456]

So happy to read such a positive post. It gives me some strength to know that things can get better. Your statement “Trust may always be out of reach for me…”made me cry. …I feel the same way but was feeling that this made my relationship a failure. Don’t you need trust, I thought? But the way you phrased it made me look at it another way, as a work in progress. ..I hope I can be in as good a place as you are one day. We are working on it but I am honestly feeling pretty hopeless at this point.
Gotta run..The kids just came out.
But I wanted to say how happy I am for you and that you are giving hope to others during their dark days. ..
Xoxo
Madge

[monique]

Hi Adele

I hope your new plans all work out really well and you find peace and happiness.

Best wishes,

Monique

[velvet]

As promised – This is a post written by a CG in response to another CG who was asking if recovery can be achieved without support.

“Great question and one that’s been asked so many times. I couldn’t have given up without help.

The question is asked can I stop alone? I can’t say 100% ‘no’ recovery can’t be gained without help

1. I’ve not met every gambler, but as yet I’ve not met a true CG whose found recovery without help

2. Not every Gambler is compulsive, they may just have used gambling recreationally and it has run away with them for a short while, but we have to remember that this addiction is progressive. If you ask any CG, who has accepted recovery, when it was they went from recreational to problematic to compulsive I doubt they could answer

A compulsive gambler in denial will be asking and answering their own distorted questions with their own distorted answers, the perpetual cycle will continue until someone can challenge what you’re saying and thinking. This then brings up the next question “when does a CG know that they are thinking in a distorted way”. The answer in my opinion is to talk to people who are living without distorted thoughts such as other CG’s in recovery who have almost definitely done this and know they can’t trust their own thoughts, this can be done at GA, GT, CBT, Counselling etc or any other support group… trying to find recovery alone will remove this option and that in my opinion is the biggest reason a CG cannot find recovery alone.

Then my last question is “why would we want to find recovery alone”? The answer is normally “I’m Ashamed” or in some instances the truth is a CG knows the above and hasn’t quite got to the point yet of accepting the reality of his or her addiction”

As an addendum – I also have never heard of a CG who has controlled their addiction without support.

Hope this helps

Speak soon

V

[adele]

Thanks V

[adele]

I have not been on the site in some time, and now I see that you lost someone very dear to you in February, although I am not able to ascertain what has happened.

I think of you so often, and how different my life would be had I not met you on this site back in May of 2013. You walked with me during my recovery for over a year during the most difficult and painful time I believe I will ever have to experience. And now my husband and I are having fun again, living a very nice life – without the addiction to gamble. I am forever grateful to you, Velvet, and this site.

I wish I had been here for you in your time of need as you have always been for so many of us on this site. My condolences are belated but no less heartfelt and sincere. I pray you are surrounded by many who love you during your bereavement.

And I hope you are taking care of YOU my dear friend Velvet.

Always,

Adele

[velvet]

Dear Adele
How wonderful to read that you and your husband are not only together but having fun and living a nice life. I often think that members feel that even if they survive the addiction it will always be hanging over them and nothing will ever be the same again – I remember you worrying about trust.
Now you know the truth of recovery and I am so very pleased that you do. It has been said by CGs who have controlled their addiction and I know it is true of F&F that given time, understanding, knowledge, courage, determination (and I believe a big wodge of humour) that life can be better for having had the addiction in it – but oh how impossibly difficult such a thought is at the beginning when one is still in the eye of the storm.
Turning a dreadful experience into a spring-board for a better life is not always possible of course but F&F can fully recover from living with the addiction and that is what you have done. The icing on your cake is that your husband has changed his life too and that is in no small measure down to you. Who could ever forget the image of you on a Harley Davidson Screamin’ Eagle Softail Deuce blowing the cobwebs away? I am delighted to say I was out on a beautiful Harley Davidson the other day although sadly only on the pillion but it was magic – my friend who gave me the ride resembles Kenny Rogers so in my heart I was singing ‘Lets Go Down in a blaze of Glory’ – wonderful. We are soon to have 500 of them riding through a village close by and I will be there breathing in the atmosphere and dreaming wonderful dreams.
I am still taking one thing at a time and doing it – my latest is to become a league table-tennis player and even though I am the bottom of the lowest division I know there is only one way I can go – yes home – no not really, I fully intend to move up next season.
Thank you for caring about my loss – it was my brother and it was tough but his funeral was an amazing celebration of laughter, with memories of days on motor-bikes and steam trains. He enjoyed his life.
I cannot thank you enough for popping back because your post will give hope to those who need it. It is hard work walking back to life (or in your case riding a motor-bike) but ultimately the healing comes if we allow it and that is what you have done.
So dear Adele I must sign off, I have a dog waiting to have her ball thrown. I hate to say this but I am still not sure I would know Adele, (the singer version) if I fell over her in the street but you can’t expect everything!!.
Look after yourself and your very special husband keep blowing the cobwebs away and have a ball
As Ever
Velvet

[adele]

Dear Velvet,

How I wish I could give you a ride on the “pillion” of my Harley! Wouldn’t we have a blast?! Although, the one friend of mine that dared to hop on behind me might advise differently. (HA) And, so you know, I’d take a ride anywhere on anything with Kenny Rogers (hubba hubba).

I am not surprised to hear you are still playing table tennis, and it sounds like you are getting serious about it … good for you. I used to love to play “Ping Pong”, and I can just imagine that league play would be loads of fun. I have a notion you are quite competitive and will be moving up in the rankings quickly. If we lived close, I would be brushing up on my game!

Thank you for your kind words V. My sweet husband and I truly are living a wonderful life without the addiction to gamble. I would not have thought it possible 4 years ago, and still had lingering doubts and apprehension even 3 years ago when I took a leap of faith and moved to the Hill Country with him. However, my cg husband has indeed changed his life. He is happy, productive, highly respected, and most importantly, he is confident and respects himself. I DO trust that he is in recovery and will continue to control his addiction, but we have left a few of the barriers in place to reinforce those mental boundaries.

My recovery was separate from his, of course, and would NOT have been possible without the amazing support I received from you, V, and others here at GT. I will be forever grateful. It took a long time, hundreds of posts, and a lot of pain and tears, but I finally began to understand that MY recovery was most important. When I decided that I was going to recover with or without my husband, the healing began for me. I can hardly bear to think what might have become of my husband (and me) if I had continued to focus on HIS recovery instead of my own. Nevertheless, I do consider the possibilities from time to time, lest I become complacent. Thankfully, we have both healed.

We are each very involved in our wonderful community, and we have made so many good friends here. We play a beautiful golf course that is our back yard and home to hundreds of deer and other wildlife almost every day, and I ride the scenic river valleys and hairpin twistys on my bike every chance I get. Some days it seems like we are on a perpetual vacation.

Of course, our lives are not perfect. We have endured a number of heartbreaks and setbacks that are normal in life, but we have weathered them better than most – possibly because we survived the addiction to gamble. Our journeys to recovery certainly made us stronger in many ways.

For those in the eye of this particular storm, please listen to what Velvet and others say here: Take care of yourself first, starting today. Let this forum help you by reading, posting and chatting in groups. And know that your life will be better if you refuse to live with the addiction to gamble.

Always,

Adele

[velvet]

Dear Adele
I know it all sounds idyllic but I also know it only came about with pain and despair. I admit I was never 100% sure when you took to them there hills that you were going to find what is what you had lost but I did hear ‘your’ recovery was well under way and like you I believe it was that, more than anything else, that has given you both the chance to live your lives together in such harmony.
The only consternation I felt with your post was the golf balls flying about and hitting Bambi’s into the rough – I am sure you will be careful though and nurse the little deers until they are fit again.
We can only trust our loved ones to care for their recovery – but then what relationship can ask for more than to trust that the person one cares for will respect and look after your relationship and of course it works both ways.
Your post is so full of your relationship being successful because you put you first and I would love for every F&F member to read it because it always seems a little weak when I suggest that this is the way forward – after all ‘how can looking after me help my CG?’’ It works and you are living proof and I am so glad you are living the life – apart from swiping Bambi with a nine iron or a wedge.
I cannot consider the possibility that I might not have recovered – living with the addiction is not negotiable in my life now.
I think the barriers you have kept in place are right for the two of you and harm nobody.
Oh how I would love to ridge the scenic river valley with you on your Harley but I might have to get off and walk around the hairpin bends – I would have to talk to your pillion rider friend first!
Must go – dinner to prepare before my husband returns from walking the dog. Please post again sometime – posts from members who have moved on are sadly lacking in the current forum which is understandable as very few want to return when they have their recovery which is understandable.
Ride on Adele, ‘in dreams’ I will be with you – sung by my favourite of all time, Roy Orbison – I held his hand while he sang ‘Running Scared’ and he probably was – I was a mere 30 something teenager and he had to tug his hand away!
As Ever
V

[velvet]

Hi Again
I think (I am hoping) that the group starts at 2pm Texas time.
V

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