Gambling Therapy logo
  • このトピックには168件の返信、17人の参加者があり、最後にvelvetにより7年、 9ヶ月前に更新されました。
168件の返信スレッドを表示中
  • 投稿者
    投稿
    • #1540
      san250
      参加者

      I know I am enabling my son to continue with his gambling and I want to stop but can’t seem to do it.
      My son has been gambling for over 8 years. He seems ‘lost’ now and wants things in life but has no money to do it because as soon as he gets any, its gone. He has a job but doesn’t like having money because he says the pull is too much. After he has lost it, he sinks into depression. It’s a vicious circle. I don’t know if he wants to stop or not. I’ve tried to guide him here and seek professional help.
      I want to be strong but mentally I am not at the moment. I’ve just completed treatment for cancer and have had to put all my energy into fighting it and deal with side effects. Being faced with your own mortality has an enormous effect on you and money in the scheme of things does not seem important any more. I’ve lost my job and have no income anymore. When I don’t have the money it’s easier to say ‘no’ to him because I know I am not lying to him. His siblings need my help too. Any advice greatly received.

    • #1541
      san250
      参加者

      Hi Velvet, thank you for your concern, thoughts and support. This week has been very interesting and I will try to get to another ‘friends and family’ group to update. I feel if I blurt out everything on here, he will one day see it, and the ‘beast’ is about at the moment.
      I don’t think he likes how the gambling affects his life but I also don’t think he wants to do anything to stop it .. yet. I can see things coming to a head very soon and he may well reach his rock bottom.
      I understand I can change the way I react to him and his situations. I have good days (when I am strong and will not/do not send him money) and what I will call ‘weak’ days (when I fall for his hard luck stories). I would love to get to the point of being strong all the time. I also realise this inconsistency is not good for either of us. When I am strong I am very strong but it takes alot of my energy, which is in short supply at the moment. We either talk on the phone, text or via facebook chat.
      He has now left his sibling’s home and I can feel the relief on her part. It is like she has been set free. He has now been through all our relatives and there is no where else to go. If his recent venture falls through, I doubt any of them will house him again. It seems to me they have cut him out of their lives and I believe, this is at the cause of some of his problems, rejection.
      Having my health problems has taught me to live in the present, what has gone, has gone, and to waste energy on what will be is just that a waste of energy I don’t have. I am trying to adopt this principal in this case too and trying to stay with the present. I’ve just read a thread about someone reaching rock bottom and some of the replies from others who had been there really helped. When I was in an abusive marriage I had to reach a rock bottom point to get out of it, but I did and with the help of someone was able to change some old belief systems running in me and replace them with positive ones. I am a completely different person now compared to then. However, the mother/son bond is so strong and when I am strong with him I feel a real sense of abandoning him/rejection but I have to be strong for both of us. I’m babbling now so will stop. I hope to get to a group soon. Thank you once again. x

    • #1542
      velvet
      モデレーター

      Hi San
      I see you have made a reference to the ‘beast’ so I am hoping you have read the coping mechanism that I and many others have found helpful.
      I think it is particularly good in your case where you talk of the mother/son bond – a bond that is fully exploited by a CG. 
      Your health concerns me because it will appear to you that it does not affect your son and I know that, that is hard to take.   You cannot believe that he lacks all compassion.
      I would have told anybody when the addiction was at its height that there was no way in a million years that my CG could love me.   It has been one of the most wonderful things about him becoming gamble-free – his empathy is greater than most.   I don’t know exactly how this can be apart from the energy and effort the CG has to go into to change their life – they become more special for the effort.   I have even heard CGs in long term recovery thank their addiction for making them the people they are.  I know the sentiment.
      You can abandon/reject his addiction without abandoning or rejecting him.   His addiction will tell him differently but his addiction drastically changes his reality to fit his personal perception and you cannot win against that.  You can know you are on his side and one day he will understand but as an active addict the concept is beyond him.
      There is not one member I would imagine who has not felt a pain in their heart when they have seen the tears, seen the hand wringing and heard the desperate plea for help.   How could this person not be in ‘need’ of saving and surely as the parent and therefore responsible, not be the ‘only’ person who can really understand.   Unfortunately to our cost the parent/spouse/child finds out to their own cost that they cannot save their loved one and the way to love them is not the way that comes naturally.  You are not responsible – there is nothing you could have done to prevent your son’s addiction.   To love him is stand against his addiction and not feed it.
      Your attitude to living is great – to live in the present is all that we can or should worry about – what has gone has indeed gone. 
      Rejection is painful and many CGs have felt rejected in their early lives but as active CGs who have ‘used’ their relatives the feeling of rejection is different.   The relative is no longer enabling and that is different to rejection.  Don’t blame relatives when they don’t understand and have protected themselves against something they fear – the addiction is the only thing responsible for the rejection – not them.  I would like to think that when your son changes they will welcome him back but I know from experience how hard this is for many – few people bother to actually learn that the addiction is an illness of the mind and not just a selfish act.  
      I understand the feeling of being concerned about rejection but I think that the non-CGs feels it more keenly.
      We can of course talk easier in a group and I look forward to seeing you again.   I understand completely why you don’t feel free to write everything here. 
       
      Keep telling him where to find support and that you know enabling him is wrong.  
      Speak soon
      Velvet 
       
       

    • #1543
      san250
      参加者

      Thank you so much for your reply Velvet. I’ve read and re-read your reply several ***** and I am picking something up each time I read it. There is so much to take in and so much in my life that is crossing over/or has crossed over. I can’t help thinking someone somewhere is showing me/pulling me into making me stand up for myself more. This is so different to my natural ‘default’ setting. I try not to ‘think’ so much anymore and go with my gut feelings.
      I will try to get into the next group or possibly the other after and thank you once again.

    • #1544
      kin
      参加者

      Originally posted by san250

      I know I am enabling my son to continue with his gambling and I want to stop but can’t seem to do it. My son has been gambling for over 8 years. He seems ‘lost’ now and wants things in life but has no money to do it because as soon as he gets any, its gone. He has a job but doesn’t like having money because he says the pull is too much. After he has lost it, he sinks into depression. It’s a vicious circle. I don’t know if he wants to stop or not. I’ve tried to guide him here and seek professional help. I want to be strong but mentally I am not at the moment. I’ve just completed treatment for cancer and have had to put all my energy into fighting it and deal with side effects. Being faced with your own mortality has an enormous effect on you and money in the scheme of things does not seem important any more. I’ve lost my job and have no income anymore. When I don’t have the money it’s easier to say ‘no’ to him because I know I am not ***** to him. His siblings need my help too. Any advice greatly received.
      Hi san250,
      this is sad. I hope you take care and I wish you a speedy recovery. Your son really need help

    • #1545
      monique
      参加者

      Hi San.
      Just saying *****. 
      I am also the mother of a gambler although he is currently living quite a long way away and not getting very involved with me.  It is difficult trying to get to grips with this horrible addiction and its effects on the cg and the family and not always easy to know how to cope.  But ultimately, we do learn to look after ourselves and make our own separation from the addiction (whatever that means for each individual).
      You have been coping with your own illness and facing mortality, so you certainly need self-care and hopefully others are also caring for you.  I think you are right to go more with your ‘gut’ feelings rather than ‘thinking too hard’.  Sometimes our bodies and intuition are very good teachers if we know how to listen to them.
      Maybe we will meet in a group sometime.
      I send you love and all good wishes,
      Monique xxKeep hope alive.

    • #1546
      san250
      参加者

      Thank you everyone for your kind words and support. It’s means alot to me. Today and most mornings I wake up full of hope, full of joy and and happy feeling inside. With my partner we listen to great music, watch some old comedies and prepare for the day ahead, uplifted and ready for a good day. I want this to continue all day. It is normally broken by a text from my son asking for money or, and I think, I maybe, (just maybe) am starting to get this now, a text from ME to him, asking how he is and what’s is he up to. Am I inviting the ‘beast’ to come alive and spoil my day? Now a text from a mother to a son is okay and good, but really I am wanting contact from him to know he is still alive and until I get that contact my mind goes into overdrive. This cannot be ‘normal’ and I want it to stop. Have a good day everyone. xx

    • #1547
      monique
      参加者

      Dear San
      I am so glad you can enjoy music and comedy and take joy in daily life.  That is wonderful.
      As a mother, I would say it is completely ‘normal’ to think about your son every day and to wish to know that he is alive and well.  I can identify totally with that. 
      I have those feelings about my daughter, who does NOT have any addictions and who is living a good and full life – but her work can mean that she is travelling alone in countries of which I know very little, so I still await those precious messages that tell me all is well.
      I believe that parenthood gives us a bond and strength of feeling like no other.
      When there is no addiction or other major divisive problem, we can reach out, maintain those contacts and feel uncomplicated joy, when the adult ‘child’ reassures us that he/she is safe and well.
      Sadly, I think that addiction drastically complicates this bonded relationship and it is very difficult working out how to remain a loving parent, whilst not becoming an enabler, nor making ourselves sick with anxiety.
      It is always hard to explain, but you will know when you have found your way through this; you will feel lighter, less worried and able to ‘let your son be’, and you will even believe that he will be safe enough to survive.  At ***** I have desperately wanted to do what was needed to make sure my son was housed, fed, clothed and safe.  When he reached a stage of losing his job and home and still did not choose for himself to go into rehab, I think I really knew HE still felt he could continue his lifestyle and survive.  Even then, I tried to ensure he could get a hostel place in his city (hundreds of miles from my home).  For some time, I did not know where he was, but in time found out that he had managed to persuade someone to take him into her home as an unofficial lodger.  I still do not know when he will reach HIS rock-bottom and truly know for himself that he ***** to enter recovery.
      But I have truly found that I do not worry in that constant way I did in the past.  I am not complacent and know that I might go backwards, if there is another ‘crisis’, but I am coping better for now.  Also, I think that my son is less likely now to ask for my ‘help’ whilst still unwilling to seek recovery, because I did not rush to get him out of his difficulties last autumn.
      I know this is MY story and you are not me, your son is not my son, but I offer you my experiences and will be pleased if they help you a little on your journey.
      All good wishes, Monique xxKeep hope alive.

    • #1548
      alwaysthefish
      参加者

      Great posts San. Thank you! I’ve been reading a lot of posts since I joined this forum a few days ago and I’ve been enjoying them – if that’s the right word. Posts where things turn out well or seem on the right track, I was happy to read because they gave me hope that there’s a chance for all of us. And the posts where relapses and other predicaments were discussed I still liked reading because… well, because misery loves company…
      But it wasn’t until I read your post that I had to stop and think. About my little boy, about wasting so much time gambling last several years, about how short life is and how vulnarable we all are.
      I wish you all the best San.
       
       If you dine with the devil, bring a long spoon

    • #1549
      san250
      参加者

      Hi Velvet
      I am not sure it is my belief it rears it’s head more in ***** of stress, I just know I have noticed that when he is stressed he comes to me more. This has certainly been true of his latest adventure. And the stress of it all is certainly now getting to me and I can feel my own health slipping. It’s when I don’t feel strong I give in, but the time is coming when I have no more money and he will have to sort himself out. I will tell more in group but it won’t be this week. Feeling low today after receiving a text from him asking for me to help him. San x

    • #1550
      san250
      参加者

      Hi Velvet
      I am not sure it is my belief it rears it’s head more in ***** of stress, I just know I have noticed that when he is stressed he comes to me more. This has certainly been true of his latest adventure. And the stress of it all is certainly now getting to me and I can feel my own health slipping. It’s when I don’t feel strong I give in, but the time is coming when I have no more money and he will have to sort himself out. I will tell more in group but it won’t be this week. Feeling low today after receiving a text from him asking for me to help him. San x

    • #1551
      monique
      参加者

      Dear San.
      I am sorry to hear that you are sensing your own health slipping and that your son’s latest request has made you feel low. The heart of the loving mother takes on stress and pressure that is not hers to bear, even though maybe it feels as if it is her responsibility. I just want you to be able to somehow release yourself from these burdens and take good care of yourself. I don’t know who/what is your Higher Power, but with you I give your son into the arms of that Higher Power until he is able/willing to seek the right help and I ask for peace and serenity for you. With best wishes, Monique.Keep hope alive.

    • #1552
      velvet
      モデレーター

      Dear San
      I’m sorry if I distracted discussing why CG’s stress.    What I am hearing in your post is a woman in great distress that will shortly not have the money to enable her son or possibly the health to do it either. 
      What I feel strongly is that allowing your son to believe that ‘later has come ‘sooner’ is hopefully more beneficial for you and him.  
      Each and every time your son taps you for money you will, in my opinion, lose another bit of San that is important to her overall health.   In the end with your mental health in shatters he will have to face the ‘fact’ that you are unable to enable him. 
      You have gone to Switzerland with the hope of a better life with your partner.   Partnerships/marriages come under tremendous stress with this addiction in the mix and that to me is another big reason why it would be better to call a halt on enablement.   We don’t always get another go at happiness and you deserve the happiness that has been denied you before.   If you lose your relationship through this addiction, your son will have that stress to cope with as well.  
      Unfortunately the texts will keep coming; the stress will keep landing on your doorstep until someone calls a halt.   He has no incentive to do so – he is indulging his addiction at your expense.
      You won’t feel strong San – you are being battered and emotionally abused.  I started off incredibly healthy and finished up a complete mess.   Broken down San I was no good to anybody.    
      Turn ‘you’ round San.  You can do it with your partner’s help.   Your son can stop gambling – if it wasn’t so I wouldn’t be here.    He has to want to stop gambling and as long as there is enablement it is a harder struggle to do so.  
      Are you fighting your partner over this too?   I know that those who love those who love the CG feel helpless too.   They feel they should protect their loved one but they are shut out and it leads to feelings of failure which affects the relationship.   United with your partner you will be stronger.
      If you think you don’t matter in the great scheme of things here you are wrong.   As part of the wreckage your son’s addiction if causing you will be impotent.   It is only in strength that this addiction is controlled.  
      Do something for you today that forces this addiction out of your head and allows a ray of sunshine in – it is what your son will have to do it when he determines to control his addiction.    Has your other son gone home? 
      You can do it San.  Your son can do it San.   Do not let your health slip anymore.  Believe in yourself and also believe that your son can overcome if he wants to enough.  
      V  
       

    • #1553
      san250
      参加者

      What a rollercoaster of a day! I understand that for things to be different it is easier for me to change than my cg son, who has to want to change. So today I’ve tried to stay strong and ‘do’ things differently to normal. I’ve had my answers ready, turned to the group therapy (thank you Velvet) and the advice line (thank you Harry) for support and advice to get me through a really tough day. I’ve been on the receiving end of blame shifting (ooo everything in his life is my fault today!), threats to kill himself, verbal abuse and worst mother in the world quotes and how useless I am. I’ve not sent him any money or paid for anything. So as far as I know he has no place to stay tonight, no money, no food, no nothing but it’s his choice. He chose to leave a roof over his head, job and food today. I’ve chosen to turn off my phone, involve my partner in everything and bat away his abuse. I’m taking each hour by hour so slowly a whole day will have disappeared. One day at a time.
      I’ve just read this by Ryanlee on another forum and to ‘hear’ it from a different prespective I am finding very insightful and helps me to keep strong, so thank you for sharing…
      ‘Then there’s my family, also unaware and wouldn’t understand this awful disease. I have borrowed more money off my parents in previous years than I can remember. Both my parents don’t have amazingly well paid jobs but have always supported me in the best way they can. But, as ever, I took the **** and made them take out loans during my university days to cover my tuition fees or student accommodation fees which I had probably blown on fruit machines and online gambling.’
      We will do anything to ‘help’ our children but we are not helping them. I have to keep reminding myself of this, so as the evening comes to an end, goodnight my son, keep safe and I love you xx

    • #1554
      berber
      参加者

      You’re doing very well San. This day is almost over, when your head hits your pillow I wish for you to have lovely dreams without worries! Big hugs. X

    • #1555
      velvet
      モデレーター

      Dear San
      ‘As far as you know he has no place to stay, no money and no food’ – you imagine the worst because you think logically and imagine how you would feel if you were in the shoes of your loved one – but it is not possible when the person you love’s mind is distorted with addiction.  
      I wish your son a goodnight too and pray that he will be safe and set your mind at rest soon.   Sadly, I am sure that tonight he will be thinking only of himself and your peace of mind will be far from his thoughts.  
      You have done amazingly well today – I know it is easier for me to make suggestions than it is for you to follow the suggestions through.  
      I hope you sleep well tonight.   Think about the son who has just been to see you when you close your eyes and know that he ***** his mum to be strong – all your children look to you for strength and you are showing it.
      One day at a time is all anybody can cope with
      Speak soon
      V  
       

    • #1556
      san250
      参加者

      I imagined ‘the worst’, woke up several ***** in the night. Then received the first text of many today, saying he had slept in a park and been bitten to death! Over the course of the day he tripped himself up and told me he caught a bus today (which means in slept in a bed), the family he is staying with gave him money he has to pay back (he has money) is now talking about gambling his last euro in the casino and is NOW in a panic over how he is going to get back to the place tonight and pay these kind people back. Expects me to pay for a hotel for him and get money to him. I am worn out by his constant texts today. I’ve been on my own, out with a friend. Didn’t want to bother my friend with my cg’s problems and haven’t even explained to my partner what’s been going on today. The lies I expect/accept and find it very sad. Sad that so much energy has been used by him to come up with the lies and me in believing them to begin with. I am not playing these games, my phone is going off and I’m going to ignore him for now because I am worn out and desperately need some sleep tonight. Slowly I’m waking up to the nature of the beast. I’ve just heard that Bernie Nolan has lost her fight against cancer and this news has hit me hard. I have another scan at the end of the month to see what my own cancer is doing.

    • #1557
      monique
      参加者

      Dear San It is sad to hear about the death of Bernie at only 52. It reminds us once again how precious is each day that we have. We can’t always have sunshine and laughter, but we try to make the best of what we have.
       I can feel your exhaustion and I would agree with you that it will be good to switch off that phone and look after yourself now.
      It can be difficult to know when to share your experiences with a friend – but if it is a good relationship with some depth, it can help to be honest and accept support from that friend.
      If you KNOW they won’t be able to support without judgment, of course it is not much use, but if it is someone who cares about you, perhaps you do not need to ‘pretend’ these things are not happening in your life? You don’t need to share every detail, but it can be a relief just to describe briefly what YOU are going through. Whatever your choices, look after YOU. And I wish you well.
      Monique 
      Keep hope alive.– 04/07/2013 18:51:35: post edited by monique.

    • #1558
      san250
      参加者

      Thanks Monique, I’ve turned my phone off and am talking to my daughter now, who’s been in bed ill all day. She’s woken up to 43 missed calls from my cg son! The friend I have been out with today is a new friend and it’s not that I don’t trust her, it’s my french is rubbish and, although, her English is good, things get lost in translation (isn’t that a film?). She’s a new friend but over my cancer she disappeared for a few months. Because my french is so basic I don’t have many friends here yet. If I’d been in the UK I’d have gone to a support group for family and friends but I doubt there would be one here in English as it’s not one of the official languages. Hope you are well and in a good place. San x

    • #1559
      velvet
      モデレーター

      Dear San
      I hope you are almost asleep – most of what I was going to say to you I have just said.  It is great to talk in real time.  
      As I said I was already writing to you when the group started.  I have looked at what I had written and deleted  most of it.   I will leave part of it though as a reminder of what I said.
      Your son is being a naught boy involving his sister so much.  I think it would be a good idea if she told him she cannot be the intermediary and he must talk to you direct – and then you get your partner to vet all the calls.  Is it possible to get her to understand a little of what enablement is without distressing her?   Unfortunately as she is in the UK we are not funded to support her but she can read the forums.  If she could understand that passing the messages on feeds his addiction maybe it would help.    I know it is difficult – siblings tend to have their own point of view!
      It is really sad but he is using her and there is no other word for it.    If she feels really pushed by her brother perhaps she could try Gamanon – the physical support from a good group is brilliant.
      I can understand that it is ***** like this when you wish that those around you spoke the same language so that you could just unwind.   We go to France every year and I manage the language fine until something goes wrong and then it seems everything speeds up and is unintelligible.  
      Keep posting and keep doing what you are doing now – although I would strongly recommend not listening to the bile you are receiving because it doesn’t help you or your son.   As I said I think you could be in for the long haul and you need your strength to cope – if you throw everything into the ‘now’ you will have nothing left for the future when he does want to change.   Listening to horrible things weakens us even if we think we can cope with it – it is a better world where we don’t hear it.   Your son is not saying what is in his heart – it is his addiction talking and there are no holds barred when it wants enablement.   One threat is no different to all the others.   You know you don’t think the things he says you think and you are not the person he implies you are – his words are therefore not worth listening to.  
      I hope there are a load of zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz’s coming from you bed – another day completed.
      V
       
       
         
       

    • #1560
      san250
      参加者

      It’s gone quiet. Managed a good sleep last night and taking it one day at a time. Thank you everyone for your support through a difficult week but I have no sent him any money this week or paid for anything. I’ve stopped doing his thinking for him and he has come up with some good ideas for himself. My partner has been helping me with the text and answers. I’m not thinking too far ahead and just trying to take things at my pace, something I know frustrates my cg, but this is my life and I won’t be pushed into things I don’t want to do anymore. I feel empowered :).

    • #1561
      san250
      参加者

      Well that didn’t last long!! Don’t feel empowered anymore. Feel stupid. Is it that it is so ingrained in us to ‘enable’ /want to help our offspring? How am I going to stop? He knows all my triggers so well. I tried to get on the advice line but it disconnects before I get to speak to anyone, sooo frustrating. So I have paid for a ticket for him to get back to the UK. He has somewhere to stay, he’s signed on and applied for four jobs, all in two hours. He is a survivor but I feel stupid, disappointed in myself for bailing him out when I said I wouldn’t. There’s a part of me that feels relieved that he is going back to the UK, that I have planted seeds for rehab even though he is not ready for it. I have compromised my own finances but the stress of him being in a foreign country was too much for me and I needed some relief. Is that selfish of me? I am having so many doubts right now.

    • #1562
      velvet
      モデレーター

      Hi San
      Come of San – get back to feeling empowered because you are –  you can do this.   
      He is certainly resourceful and a survivor – now you have to dig into your emotional resources and survive too.  
      I cannot tell you what to do but I do hope you can now stop compromising your finances, your relationship and your life. 
      I hope to hear you feeling more positive – you are definitely not stupid but you are on a painful learning curve – parents do not want their children to suffer and being tough does not come naturally.   It takes a lot of bashing in to your head that to love a CG is to be tough – nobody could learn it quickly.
      Hope to speak to you in real time soon 

       

    • #1563
      san250
      参加者

      Update … I haven’t been able to get to the group this week but wanted to let you know I went for my scan this week and everything is good. The lymphoma is still ‘inactive’ and there are no new sites. So its all good 🙂 hoping it will be 6 months before I get scanned again but if it’s 3 so be it. I’ve also been for a job interview and go for a week’s trial very soon. AND England retained the Ashes!! One very happy ***** this end. Just wanted to show people that life goes on and once you can clear your head of the ‘addiction’ it allows other things to enter your life. And my cg? I am really taking a ‘back’ seat and letting him come to me. He has asked me to send him money to help him out but I still say NO and he now backs off straight away. I am trying very hard not to talk about gambling at all with him and when he starts to go ‘down’ in the conversation I bring it right back up. For example he has just been paid and is already saying he only has 20 pounds left for next week after paying his bills and all his debts. I turned it round by saying he has paid all his debts off this week, owes no one anything and he has 20 pounds left and how lucky he was. Taking one day at a time.

    • #1564
      monique
      参加者

      Hi San
      So lovely to read your update and I am very glad to hear that your scan was clear.
      Your whole post comes over with such notes of wisdom, learning through experience and making the most of the ‘now’.  It is very uplifting.
      Stay strong.
      Wishing you well as ever, Monique

    • #1565
      velvet
      モデレーター

      Hey San
      That is terrific.  I missed you in the group and hoped all was well – it is great to hear it confirmed.  
      A week’s trial sounds good – your new found confidence will shine though and how dare any employer argue with that!
      Your son thought you were doing well with 34p and now he has £20 – he must feel on top of the world – nearly 6 ***** more than he thought you could live on – yes I did have to use a calculator! 
      That is a terrific post San – it has set me up for the day.   Well done. 
      One day at a time indeed
      V
       

    • #1566
      san250
      参加者

      Not sure how this forum works yet. My last thread doesn’t seem to be on here but nevermind. Well, just had a phone call from my son asking for money, no surprise there then. I foolishly told him I was getting paid this week, my first paypacket for 10 months following my illness, and before I even set eyes on it, the phone call. I feel disgusted, angry and resigned to the fact he has a long way to go still. Sometimes I see it so clearly, other times, the little boy lost who has a lot of growing up to do and I’m the mother who is suppose to love him no matter what. Oh well tomorrow is another day, taking one day at a time. Love to you all x

    • #1567
      madge456
      参加者

      Sorry you have to deal with all this..It must be very difficult to deal with a CG son and your illness. You must be very strong. Stay strong and take care of yourself – Your son will manage – you need to be there for you. Sending love and positive thoughts
      Madge

    • #1568
      monique
      参加者

      Hi San.

      I have not yet got to ‘know’ the new website, but hopefully we will all soon feel at ease with it!

      I think I have felt those kinds of mixed feelings you describe – your son will always, at some level, be your ‘little boy lost’ and, of course, you will always be his loving mother. But sometimes the decisions we have to make and actions that are necessary are much more complex – they require a lot of thought and insight into the ‘full story’. You are clear that you do not want to enable your son to continue gambling and that you need to protect your own health – emotional, physical, mental and financial. Holding on to that will not make decisions easy, but can guide us.

      I wish you well.

      Monique

    • #1569
      san250
      参加者

      Thanks Monique, I feel calmer today. The ‘full story’ is certainly very complex and I believe I can ‘see’ the reasons behind his gambling and manipulation and bad behaviour. Letting go is the hardest part but I turned it around and see it as a form of control. I am not in control of anyone else’s life, just my own. My children are adult children now and responsible for their own lives and mistakes. When so much time has been allocated to them, when they don’t need you any more, suddenly you’ve got all this time to fill! I have a new job which takes up four days a week now and I am feeling so tired, so energy is at a low at the moment. It’s recognising when I feel low, he must sense it! and in comes the requests for money. If I don’t feel strong I sometimes give in. I have another top up of one of my chemotherapy ***** soon so maybe my energy levels will come up :). Hope you are okay too. Take care San x

    • #1570
      monique
      参加者

      I’m glad you are feeling calmer today – I hope that lasts. I think we often ‘regress’ at the moment of ‘challenge’ or ‘shock’ and it is easy to be temporarily thrown off course, but the ability to re-think , as you have shown, is of great help in these situations and ‘bad moments’.

      Again, I really identify with those feelings about ‘control’ and ‘letting go’ with our grown-up children!

      Your job seems to need a lot of your strength right now, so probably you just have to concentrate on feeling able to get on with that and looking after yourself.

      I hope the chemotherapy is not too difficult for you.

      Best wishes,

      Monique

    • #1571
      adele
      参加者

      Dear San,

      You have been through so much. I can only imagine the gamut of emotions you are experiencing as you await news.

      As bad as things sound like they were for him today, I believe he has been in similar dire situations before, and he has always been resourceful and managed to get by somehow.

      Whether this was another desperate attempt to manipulate or a serious effort to end his pain, he made the choice to do what he did. I’m sure you realize it is still his addiction to deal with and there still is nothing you can do to force him to change.
      It is possible that he resorted to this tactic in order to ‘surrender’ himself to institutional care. Who could ever really know given the depths of deception this addiction is capable of?

      I hope for your sake (and his of course), whatever his intent, that this serves as the beginning of his recovery.
      And I sincerely hope you have someone to lean on during this time. You and your son will be in my thoughts and prayers tonight.

      Adele

      ***San – I’m sorry some of your posts from the 15th didn’t make it over to the new site. This is what I posted to you that night… and then the site when down. I was so relieved that your son was OK once the site came back up***

    • #1572
      velvet
      モデレーター

      Dear San

      I have read Adele’s reply to you and I am in the dark about your posts from the 15th that didn’t make it in the transfer. It it appears that the worry you had, might have been sorted but please write about it again if you still have concerns.

      I was pleased to see that you said ‘we’ got a phone call which tells me you are sharing and not dealing with this on your own.

      Anger and disgust are understandable and I think every one on this site feels the same about the addiction regardless of which forum they are in. Sadly your son may be a fair way off from sorting himself out and I know how stretched those loving feelings can get. We shy away in the real world from saying the unmentionable that is screaming around in our head but I know that being a loving mother is not always the feeling being enjoyed. You can love your son and even be afraid that you might not but you definitely do not love his addiction. I know that sometimes it is impossible to see the difference but as I have said before there will never be (and could never be) any judgement here.

      If you think you figure in the reasons for your son’s poor behaviour and his gambling then, in my opinion, it would good to talk about it.

      I don’t think your son would have recognised that you were low; it probably just felt like he did because you were feeling down. Write your positive headlines when you are strong and then bank them for when you are not on top, they will help you cope.

      Example of what not to say: ‘I am getting paid’.

      Example of what to say: ‘I don’t have any money to spare’.

      Unfortunately one of the blips on the site at the moment is the use of asterisks in the wrong place and I don’t know the word you have used in your post following ‘chemotherapy’ but you have said it will increase your energy levels so hopefully that will make you more positive about the way you feel.

      I am having a bit of catching up to do but hopefully I will be on top soon. I can see that you are coping with your replies and I think the new forum will be great once we stop hankering for the familiar old format. The support and care is still the same regardless.

      Are you enjoying the new job?

      Speak soon

      V

    • #1573
      san250
      参加者

      Hope you had a great holiday. To cut a very long story short, my son went to my daughter’s for a week, she threw him out then called the police on him, because he said he was going to throw himself off a bridge. They took him to hospital where he was seen by a doctor who deemed him not ‘unwell’ enough to stay. My daughter went back to her flat, my son went back to throw himself off a bridge. He didn’t he slept in a bush. My father stepped in and took him in for a week, then bailed him out and he’s now in a room somewhere. He was very positive about it all, he’s been there five days, hates it, says he is depressed and is going further and further down. I am getting angrier and angrier. I’m trying hard to keep it together without blowing my top. I am sick of this. That’s about it. lol
      Will try to get to a group soon but working hard and feel very tired. Go for some more of my drugs to keep me going soon, it can’t come soon enough to give me some energy. Take care San x

    • #1574
      san250
      参加者

      Hi Velvet
      Permalink Submitted by san250 on Sat, 09/28/2013 – 18:58
      Hope you had a great holiday. To cut a very long story short, my son went to my daughter’s for a week, she threw him out then called the police on him, because he said he was going to throw himself off a bridge. They took him to hospital where he was seen by a doctor who deemed him not ‘unwell’ enough to stay. My daughter went back to her flat, my son went back to throw himself off a bridge. He didn’t he slept in a bush. My father stepped in and took him in for a week, then bailed him out and he’s now in a room somewhere. He was very positive about it all, he’s been there five days, hates it, says he is depressed and is going further and further down. I am getting angrier and angrier. I’m trying hard to keep it together without blowing my top. I am sick of this. That’s about it. lol

      Will try to get to a group soon but working hard and feel very tired. Go for some more of my drugs to keep me going soon, it can’t come soon enough to give me some energy. Take care San x

    • #1575
      velvet
      モデレーター

      Hi San

      The drama of the addiction – how scary it can be. Many of us have heard such threats and been afraid, which is what the addiction determined we should be. No matter how many t imes we hear such threats they will always frighten us.

      I really, really do understand when you say you are sick of it – unfortunately mothers can seldom walk away or even separate themselves, unscathed.

      You are doing well though and I hope you can keep control of that lid. It would be good if you could let of some steam and I hope you can do it with somebody who will help you mop up the condensation when you have done so. Make sure there are many times in the day when you do not allow your thoughts to go to this addiction – deprive it of the air it sucks out of you.

      The addiction will take you all the way to the bottom if you allow it and you will help nobody if this happens. You are important, never forget that. Your health and happiness are the greatest protection from the addiction and also the greatest support to the CG struggling with the addiction.

      I hope to see you in a group soon and I hope you soon get the pick-me-up you need.

      V

    • #1576
      san250
      参加者

      I wish the advice lines were open when I needed them. Feeling very weak, manipulated, unsure what to do and there’s no one to talk to. The days of being ignorant of the addiction are over, but in someways those days were easier. I hope some cg read what effect your gambling has on your other halves, parents and family. Fed up.

    • #1577
      adele
      参加者

      San –

      I don’t know what you are going through right now specifically, but I would imagine whatever it is, you have been through it before and it fits somewhere in that F&F Cycle we are all so familiar with.

      I assume you are once again being emotionally abused and your health is going to suffer because of it. San, I know how awful it is to feel weak and manipulated, and I hope you are able to chat with someone soon.

      In the meantime let me just remind you it is OK to reject your son’s addiction – it doesn’t mean you are rejecting him. In fact, to love him is to stand against his addiction!

      San, you must take care of yourself. you will be no good to anyone if you let this addiction take you down. Do you keep that list of “answers” handy? Or that list of positive thoughts?

      You know enough to realize that as long as your son has enablement, he may not be able to make the decision to stop gambling. And until he makes that decision you have the right to say no. If you are fed up, turn off your phone for awhile … get a new number … move … wear a disguise … whatever it takes to allow you some peace to take care of yourself.

      Let us know how you’re doing and know you are being thought of and wished well.

      Adele

    • #1578
      velvet
      モデレーター

      Dear San

      Talk to me. I hope to see you in the group tomorrow night but in the meantime please tell me how you are being manipulated and made to feel weak.

      I know what you mean about the days of ignorance being better but they were not really because they were a slow build up to feeling as you do now.

      Thinking about you

      V

    • #1579
      san250
      参加者

      I’ve clicked on my horoscope today … don’t do it very often and this sums it up …’ You may be playing nursemaid again, and this time you may be bandaging heart, spirit or soul as well as body and mind. Someone you care about is struggling with a religious or spiritual crisis and is reaching out to you for help you don’t feel qualified to give.’

      I feel upset, angry, very disappointed and a bit of a failure for not being strong. I see my son heading for a criminal life and homeless. He’s not looking after himself, was pulled in at work for ‘not looking right’. He’s got mixed up in payday loans which are crippling him, so he’s not eaten for days is stressed to the hilt. I did send him some last night (i didn’t want to), so he could eat something. Of course I don’t know if he did, he told me he did. Being in another country I have no idea what the ‘real’ story is.

      Within 20 minutes of dealing with him, my daughter tells me she had a mental breakdown in the middle of town yesterday too and was told to ‘calm down’ by two policemen.

      On top of this I mistakenly called my ex mother-in-law about my ex, BIG MISTAKE, she accused me of abandoning my children and her words have been ringing in my ears all week. I don’t need her to make me feel guilty, I’m very good at that myself!! Of course, her precious son could do no wrong!! Arghh she will never accept the bullying of myself and my children by him. What a vicious circle.

      So I feel very mixed up, energy low (back to hospital next week :)) and vulnerable.

      Onwards and upwards.

    • #1580
      monique
      参加者

      Dear San
      I’m sorry you are going through such a hard time. I do really feel for you and recognize those feelings you describe about your grown up children and your sense of responsibility and even guilt.

      But please remind yourself that you made the best choices you could at each stage of your life, in very difficult circumstances when you were not being well-treated or supported. Guilt today cannot help you or your loved ones. Can you ask yourself what you can realistically offer to your children today? – how would you respond to another mother in your situation? how would you advise her? (I put it like that because we are often kinder to another person than we are to ourselves.) There may be nothing you can do – if so, send them your loving wishes and ‘prayers’ (whatever that means to you) that they will get the right help from another source. Then try to treat yourself with compassion and kindness.

      I would also share that I did not believe that my son could ‘survive’ at times in the past – it felt to me that he was not like these other gamblers, who were ‘worldly wise’ and tough and could ‘make out’ somehow; he was vulnerable and lost because of his ‘gentler’ life experience and because of his other health needs – in my opinion. BUT, when I ‘let him go’ (not a one-off event, but an ongoing change in my thinking), I found that even my son had his own resources and ways of getting by. This may well be so for your son, too – although, I know he has really gone to the edge recently.
      Please take courage and do not despair.

      With my very best wishes,

      Monique

    • #1581
      san250
      参加者

      Thanks everyone for your support, as always gratefully received. Yesterday, my 4 year old charge, played up. He was having an off day and being a typical 4 year old who didn’t like to be told ‘No’. He wanted to play ‘fighting’ and my old battered body won’t tolerate it, so firm ‘No’s were the order of the day. I wanted to go a certain way home, he didn’t. I wanted to go to meet his mother from the train, he wanted to stay and watch television. What stuck me was the similarity of dealing with my cg, the persistentness in trying to persuade me to change my mind, the childish ways. Moreover it was MY reaction to him to, I started off strong, determined to stand my ground but I relented. Why did I relent? quiet life? felt sorry for them? I don’t really know, but I know I have work to do on myself, not to be ‘walked over’. Obviously in the case of my charge, I am dealing with a 4 year old and the first call is his parents. But even at this age I can see unleft this child is going to have problems in life, if he carries on.

      Hoping today will be better. Wishing you all some peace and the strength to carry on. Take care. San xx

    • #1582
      velvet
      モデレーター

      Dear San

      Why we give in when faced with determination by another to make us do something that we feel/know is unacceptable is an interesting question?

      I have a Labrador who suffers with poor hips and shoulders and at the moment is limping on a front leg. I know that if I throw a ball she will hurt more but she looks at me with eyes that would melt the coldest heart and pleads ‘just one throw – please’. I don’t throw her ball because it would cause her pain but I compromise and throw a soft toy in the hope she doesn’t leap and chase it when it bounces off her nose. Of course it develops to one more throw and then another until her limp is more pronounced. I have become her enabler and I am not doing the right thing for her.

      I think the answer to your question is that we ‘hope’ that by giving in a bit we will make the other person’s life better but as can be seen with your small boy and my Labrador it doesn’t always follow.

      Many people say they give in for a ‘quiet life’ but surely we all hope for a quiet life. Not so I think. People, dogs have agendas that are not deliberately cultivated, hence the insecure seek to dominate the secure, the young flex their muscles testing their strengths against the experienced and the CG seeks to dominate the non-CG for enablement. The secure, the experienced and the non-CG, I believe, make allowances hoping that by doing so those they love/care about/ meet in life will ‘learn’. I believe that there has to be a balance and it is reached by an individual being happily in control of their own life and able therefore to make the right judgement on a situation for the right reason without giving in to the unacceptable. Your young charge’s demands were not the best but they were also not unacceptable and he will not suffer. You will be ready for him next time having given thought to his behaviour and your reaction.

      I was sorry you didn’t make the group last night but I am pleased to see you thinking positively in the cold light of day. Examining your reaction when the stakes are not as high, as they are with your son will, I believe, give you strength. You were not being officious – you knew your body wasn’t up to a fighting game with a 4 year old (I really relate to that) and you knew it was better for him to meet his mother off the train, than to watch television. You have experience and knowledge that he lacks but you weighed up the confrontation against that which you thought would please him. You also know from you own experience that always being told ‘no’ is not a lot of fun.

      I love the questioning San

      I hope today will bring you the peace and strength you need. Thank you for rattling my little grey cells.

      V

    • #1583
      madge456
      参加者

      Hi San
      Thanks for your comments on my thread. I wanted to say I understand what you are talking about about being an enabler. I had never thought about myself as one – more like a “relent-er” Something would happen and after a few moments I would give in, or relent…it is hard not to …you feel compassion and at some point their mixed up thinking becomes persuasive and you start to think “am I the one that is crazy?” or “maybe this is ok to do X”…I understand…. and I understand how hard it to to stand your ground when you are not even sure if the ground you are on is where you should be standing (I hope that makes sense..). I agree with Monique who I think said take the advice you would offer another in your situation – usually it is so much clearer then – be strong for yourself- I am thinking of you and wanted you to know I understand..
      XX
      M

    • #1584
      san250
      参加者

      Thanks V and Madge for you comments. It’s good to know someone else somewhere understands. My cg gets paid on a friday and so yesterday came and no reply to my text. It went very quiet and here the cycle continues. He’s gone off to the bookies this happens when it goes silent. I know this is what happening so I’m okay. Next I get the message ‘I’m so depressed and I have no money.’ I have no sympathy, I will not send any money. This part of the cycle I understand, he had money, he gambled it. I can deal with this part of the cycle because I can understand what is going on. It’s when I’m not strong I cave in. I feel I can only tell him again there is help out there and he has to seek it himself. I want a quiet weekend this week, I am fed up of having to ‘deal’ with him every weekend. Apologies if this is a garbled message, for me writing it down here gives me strength to clear my head and try and work a way through it.

      V – it was too late for me to join the group on Thursday, i’m an hour ahead and was so tired.

      So I’m off to think of ways to enjoy MY weekend with my partner and friends. Have a good one. San xx

    • #1585
      velvet
      モデレーター

      Dear San

      I hope you have the most wonderful weekend doing San-things that gave you pleasure.

      Knowing you can cope when you are strong is an important message for you to understand. I think it must be true of us all that we cope better when we are feeling strong.

      It is the weaker times that you need to protect against and you now understand better when those are. Your health obviously has a large part to play and I wonder if maybe your partner could be the lead person at these times, he will know when they are. ‘Your mother is not well enough to cope at the moment’ could be the type of reply your son requires.

      I think sometimes we can be weak when we feel good too – maybe more likely to give way because our lives are on an even keel and we want to share the feeling. This is a dangerous area and I think the time to give yourself a stern reminder of what happened before. Because you feel good does not mean that giving into his demands will make him feel better – he will give an instant cry of thanks and then use your kindness to hurt himself further.

      His cycle will continue until he either cannot sustain his addiction or he opens his eyes and seeks support. Your cycle on the other hand is not madly freewheeling as it did and that is great. Once it slows down enough you can get off even though you will not forget he is your son.

      Hope to speak soon

      V

    • #1586
      san250
      参加者

      right this minute i am sticking two fingers up to the addiction. I want some peace in my life. I want to be able to sleep at night. I want to have my finances kept safe. I want to enjoy time with my partner/friends without another addiction drama. I want to protect my own mental and physical health. I’ve learnt about the addiction, I’ve learnt my enabling helps no one, not him not me. I’ve learnt it divides families – boy has it done that to mine. I’ve learnt I can’t help him. I can keep giving him information to get help. I can support him not the addiction. Right this minute I don’t want anything to do with him, right this minute I’ve had enough. I am sick to death of it all, I don’t want anything to do with gambling, addiction, the dramas etc etc and I am taking time out. It’s pushed me too far this time.

    • #1587
      monique
      参加者

      Dear San
      I have read your post and want to reach out to support you. I hope it has helped you to write down those strong feelings and that you have found some sense of relief, but also strength and resolve within you.
      It can be very hard living with this horrible addiction, even when you are physically at some distance. I applaud your defiance as expressed in this post. You are right – enabling helps no one, not even your son and, yes, you can support HIM, but not the addiction. Sometimes it is hard to get the two things clearly separated in our minds and actions, but you have learned a lot and are stronger and wiser now.
      Continue to look after yourself, build your own life and share it with those who make it better for you. Keep hoping for your son’s complete change of mind and heart, which is the only way he can make progress now, but don’t let him spoil your life – this is what you are stating and we will be right with you.

      All good wishes,

      Monique

    • #1588
      san250
      参加者

      your support is invaluable and very timely. I just can’t do this anymore, it’s dragging me down with it. I like your line ‘share it with those who make it better for you’. Sometimes I wonder who this is! I’ve been through so much ‘other stuff’ this year, faced death in the face, I need some closure. So this morning I’ve said to my cg I only want to talk to him if its nothing to do with money, gambling, having no money for food, rent etc. If he starts I will end the conversation. I cannot put myself through this anymore, so space from him is what I need and this time I am going to listen to myself for a change. I’m not sure what is harder, leaving a partner/husband or leaving a son/family member. Luckily I have always been of the mind that children are ‘not yours’, you give birth to them and then teach them tools for life and then you let them go. I didn’t have children to bring up on my own and without any support but that’s what has happened. I have done the best I could, I honestly believe that :). I’m rambling time for a coffee and I have a canvas that is calling me to put some paint on it! It’s been calling me for a long time but some stupid addiction has been getting my time and energy. So for now I’m signing off. Thanks again Monique, take care xx

    • #1589
      monique
      参加者

      Hi San
      Painting – that is a great idea. Stay with it and enjoy the colour, self-expression – whatever it is that gives you real pleasure. I am not a painter, but I have friends who are creating beauty and finding their own space through this art-form. I like to write and have joined a little writing group; I also do some dancing, go to a poetry group and a French group (I studied French to degree level years ago and this group is allowing me and others of similar knowledge to brush up our sometimes ‘rusty’ language skills!). I don’t know what you have available to you in your home area, but getting really involved with people who share your interests can be a good way to ‘actively fill your mind’ with things other than the problems of addiction. Obviously, don’t overdo it! – you need to look after yourself, as you have not been well and you have a busier work-life than I have, I think. But do allow yourself to ‘get lost’ in something really enjoyable.
      Who are the people that can make things better for you? – I can’t say who these people are in your life. Sometimes, they are people you know you can trust and talk to about difficulties, with the assurance of their acceptance and care. Sometimes, they may be people who are just good to be with – maybe you don’t confide in them about difficulties, but you feel better being in their company and sharing other positive things. It’s all worth thinking about anyway.
      I like your description of children as ‘not yours’ (or ‘not ours’), but people to whom you give birth, bring up as well as you can in your circumstances, then ‘let go’. I have had to learn that gradually – not just because of my son with his addiction, but also with my daughter, whose work keeps her in other parts of the world, far away and sometimes out of touch. Well, I’m still learning …
      with continuing good wishes,

      Monique

    • #1590
      berber
      参加者

      Thanks San and Monique, that you keep writing and venting. It helps to read your posts and love how you are taking up activities for YOU. I loved dancing, have not done so in forever and I feel the urge to start painting (probably not very good at it) and you know what? I am going to just DO IT. This week I will buy paint and find out where I can take dancing classes. Thanks again, have a wonderful week! XXX Berber

    • #1591
      velvet
      モデレーター

      Hi San

      I loved the guts and verve in your ‘two fingers’ post but I also sense the belief that you think that what you want will always be just beyond you.

      You are right that you are doing everything you can to support your son and not his addiction but I know you want more.

      I don’t think we can, or should, waste our energy comparing separating from partners/husbands to separating from son/daughter/father but I do know there is a difference. I also believe we do not own our children and from everything you have ever written I know you have done everything you could for all your children. My son told me that there was nothing I could have done that would have changed the way it was/is for him – nothing I had said, thought, acted on would have made a scrap of difference. After much soul-searching I believe this to be true because he is the only one who held the answers that no one else could give with such conviction..

      Confused by his active addiction your son cannot give you the closure you want but you can have small closures along the way such as knowing that you have given him the seeds to plant and told him where they will grow when he is ready. You have acted as the most loving mother and now it is down to him.

      There can never be complete closure for us,or our sons; they will always be compulsive gamblers so it is important to look for the light bulb moments, that make a difference to us, on your way. It is important to look at your other children, your partner and your friends. It is important to look after your health for your own sake and all who love you.

      I cannot give you what you want to hear most but I can repeat again that I would not be here if I did not ‘know’ that the addiction to gamble can be controlled.

      I know you son is younger than mine was when he changed his life but I am sure your awareness and your determination to find out all you can about what is hurting him and why, will keep you in good stead until he is ready. I did enable and I am sure my ignorance contributed to the length of time it took for him to change. Keep those two fingers held high to the addiction; you are standing shoulder to shoulder with your son when you do it, not against him.

      I am sure we will talk again soon

      You are allowing him the space to find his way, that is not leaving him.

      V

    • #1592
      san250
      参加者

      I thought it might be an idea for me to keep a record of Non-enablement days to help me keep strong. If I can record my feelings and actions this I think would help me to stay on the right track, so here goes.

      Day One – I will call yesterday Day One as this is the first contact with my cg asking for money and my reply of ‘No.’ He asked me quite late on, asking if I would buy him some food (I can order and pay for a takeaway online). I said, ‘No sorry, I am tired and now going to bed’. I turned off the computer and my telephone and breathe a huge sigh. This morning there was a reply of ‘Oh wow … :(‘. I felt okay that I had got through that one.

      Day Two – today. Another request for a small amount of money to buy toilet paper, food and tobacco. I had a very small amount of his money left so told him that amount I could send him but not what he wanted. He says he has an upset stomach and no toilet paper. I tell him to shower, drink water and go to the doctors if he is really ill. IF its true, I do feel sorry for him but I can’t be sure. I must not buckle to the ‘mother’s guilt’. Still some hours of this day to go, but remaining strong.

    • #1593
      adele
      参加者

      Hey San,

      Good idea posting the Non-enablement days! This could work well with Velvet’s suggestion of having notes handy for your “non-enabling” responses to your cg’s requests for money, accusations, etc. You could write those things on index cards and keep them in an envelope in your purse or wherever they would be convenient. And you can print your NonE posts and cut them out and paste them to index cards. Anything that will give you the strength to say NO.

      I hope to see many many more of these Non-enablement posts from you – I know it is so difficult for you. I really think this is a great idea and I believe the reinforcement will help you to repeat the non-enablement!

      Adele

    • #1594
      san250
      参加者

      Thank you for your continuing support. For me, it will be important to get through each day as it progresses. I have had lots of ideas on how to reply to him and I will be calling on these to help me through.

      Thank you for writing about the chat logs earlier. It really helped to go through our group last night. At the time, there is alot of good advice, but it is so easy to miss it at the time. It was good to go through the chat log for last night.

      Have you done/will you be doing anything for yourself today? I went into a clothes shop today and checked out a new top for myself for when I get paid at the weekend :). I am 99% sure I will buy it. When you enable a cg your money does not go on yourself – just in case anyone reading this, thinks that’s a strange thing lol. I also went to the butcher’s today and bought a hedgehog for tea (a chicken breast with mozzarella cheese encased in pastry in the shape of a hedgehog!) instead of a supermarket bargain piece of meat. Go me, eh? Why should the bookies/betting office have my hard earned cash? Time to live a little with my wonderful partner. Tomorrow I am going to work on my painting.

      I would like to apologise for my awful English too, I am learning French and the two languages and use of grammar get very muddled up :P. We call it Fronglais here.

      Hope to see you in group again.

      San x

    • #1595
      adele
      参加者

      Hi San,

      It was so good to see you and Berber in the chat room Tuesday. I always feel enriched after a group session. And I agree: Sometimes I don’t absorb everything that’s said, or miss something completely, so I’ve always copied and saved my chats. I really like this new site feature where it keeps a chat log for you. I’ve been trying to make Tuesday and Thursday groups regularly, but Wednesday group is at 5am for me! (I’m kinda grumpy that early – ha) I hope more of our F&Fs start coming back around soon.

      I am very impressed that you are learning French … such a beautiful language. Are you teaching yourself or using a program? I would like to learn Spanish for practical purposes because so many of our Hispanic population here do not speak English. It’s hard to imagine me with my prominent Texan accent speaking Spanish …

      So… I think you absolutely, 100%, should buy that new blouse for yourself, then go strut your stuff with your sweet partner. You so deserve it San – you really do. You deserve that, and the hedgehog thing, your painting and so much more. What you don’t deserve is that 1% uncertainty. And the bookies certainly don’t deserve another cent of yours! Yes m’am YOU GO GIRL!

      See you in group soon.

      Adele

    • #1596
      san250
      参加者

      Day 3 … It was all about food! Incessant demands for food. In the end I turned my phone off and told him I would not be blackmailed. Finally got some sleep.

      Day 4 – He’s upped the stakes today. Says he’s gone to the dodgy people for money because I WOULD NOT GIVE HIM SOME FOOD! So now the dodgy people want their money back and I am not sending it, so I am now having texts to say he has a knife to his throat and he has been punched and he doesn’t want me to feel guilty if something happens to him tonight, so send him some money.

      Now the logic in me tells me not to believe a word and if he was in real danger he would call the police or let me call the police. The mother in me wants to feed him and protect him from bullies. This is the internal fight within me but I feel pleased that I have come to this conclusion and worked out why I haven’t been able to stop enablement before. This nurturing mother instinct is very very strong and fights with the logic. I feel unusually calm at the moment. We will see what tomorrow brings. Signing off for now ….

    • #1597
      adele
      参加者

      Dear San,

      It’s hard to hear what you’ve been dealing with every day, but it sounds like you are more aware now. I understand that calmness you’re feeling. When I first felt that way after refusing to enable (at a time I would previously have been frantic and anxious and felt I had no choice but to enable), I remember thinking “I think I’m finally getting it!”. It didn’t change the outcome of whatever the situation was, but it was so cathartic to change the way I reacted.

      No matter what else, you have done well on this my friend, and I know it was hard.

      Allow me to repeat something Velvet said to recently ..

      “Keep those two fingers held high to the addiction; you are standing shoulder to shoulder with your son when you do it, not against him.”

      Adele

    • #1598
      san250
      参加者

      for your continuing support. I’m sticking those fingers up very hard. He is continuing to ask for money and telling me he is going to die very soon because he has to pay this man back. If it’s true I’m going to feel very guilty. If it’s a ploy to get my money I’m feeling disgusted at how low he is stooping. I’m confused. I’m feeling emotionally abused but I am not sending him anything. If it’s battle of the wills, try having cancer and you’ll find out how strong I am!! I’ve turned him off now, he can’t contact me.

      Hope you are doing well Adele, your thread on the counselling was fascinating. Interestingly my cg says he gambles because he is lonely too, that came out tonight. I wonder how many others there are out there where loneliness plays a part. Take care. san x

    • #1599
      monique
      参加者

      Hi again San.
      I admire your strength and determination and I think you are doing really well. I agree so much that the caring mother part of you/us always feels the conflict and it can be very painful. But the knowledge you have gained is helping you to make the best decisions you can in this context. Yes, your son needs to be cared for, but his addiction needs to be ‘starved’ – funny that I used that word, when he is pressurising you for food! Your son must not starve, but the addiction should be starved. And your son will not starve – experience seems to show that the addict can be very resilient and get what they need to survive. Even the ones who seem so fragile to the mums and others who love them.
      Keep on looking after YOU. A strong Mum is the best one your son could have, even if he does not appreciate that just now. Have a good weekend.
      Monique

    • #1600
      san250
      参加者

      Well the beast is certainly awake and throwing all it’s got at me. My partner got upset with the whole ‘situation’ yesterday and I walked out. Within the space of two minutes I had my cg blackmailing me for money (telling me he had just come out of hospital and SEND THE MONEY NOW), my daughter saying if you only talk to me to find out about cg, don’t bother (she works at the hospital and I asked if she could check out his story, when she said No, I left it) and my partner saying I had ruined his Saturday afternoon. Hmmm, think I need some space, so I walked out left my phone behind and went to the lake for four hours, walked miles and cleared my head.

      Came back to my partner asleep on the sofa, so I watched some TV then went to bed, to be woken at midnight to say my partner was being harrassed by my cg, to talk to me. I carried on sleeping. I can’t believe a word my cg says anymore.

      I’ve made a decision to go and see my doctor on Monday morning and get an appointment. I don’t know the procedures here for therapy help but I need to talk to someone face to face. I have such alot going on in my brain on top of my blackmailing cg and I can’t cope anymore. I don’t have an female friends to have a chat with and my french is very basic, I would not be able to communicate effectively. So that was day 5, another Saturday ruined by this addiction.

      Day 6 has started with the clocks going back an hour, so I am up at silly o’clock and there’s a storm raging outside (thunder and lightning) and I need a coffee.

      Hope everyone else is having a great time. Take Care San x

    • #1601
      velvet
      モデレーター

      Dear San

      Certainly not the best Saturday for you – so I hope this female cyber friend will help a bit.

      Siblings do not always cope well. They have a conflict of interest. The can think they understand their siblings better than the parent. In reality they often do not ever understand what is going on and why their parent appears absent in thought to them. If the parent takes their eye off the ball, the sibling can feel rejected, unloved, used and angry – they can resent the CG more and be less and less willing to understand. You can be lured into a false sense of security believing their shoulders are big enough but they are not and I don’t think it is their fault.

      Do you have a brother or sister?

      You know I can’t tell you what to do but based on experience it might be better not to mention the CG to the sibling unless the sibling raises the subject or appears to be being manipulated. I can/will say a lot more about this in a group.

      Marriages/partnerships struggle with the addiction of a child and the addicted child will be completely unaware. The addiction is divisive and rips people apart. I would imagine you tried to talk to your partner about all the stuff that was whirling round in your head and he had, had a belly-full.

      I have found that in most cases there is one person in a family who takes the brunt of the addiction, not just from the CG but from all those around. I don’t mean this as literally as it sounds but provided one person in ‘dealing’ with the mess the others sit back a bit and let them get on with it. When the person the addiction is targeting seeks a shoulder to cry on the support melts away and other hidden feelings come into play. They want ‘their’ lives to be free of addiction. I think that many husbands/partners/siblins can feel they have let their wife/partner/siblings down because they cannot protect them and instead of giving the necessary support there can be angry words and blame. More blame on top of the blame already being heaped up by the CG leads to cracking point. That is why I think it would help if you could get some therapy – you need to talk to someone who can listen and support without judgement or blame.

      I can’t remember if you have a Gamanon or not – my vague memory says you don’t have one. That was my refuge.

      The tough message, I believe, is that your partner and your daughter want you free of this worry. They are suffering in their own way that they cannot have you as they want you. You said you cleared your head by the lake – did this happen in fact because if it did – use it as a place of safety but tell your partner where you are going. Don’t cut him out and leave him more worried because in his own way his worries are probably different but equal.

      I have pulled a ligament in my foot and as such I am unable to leap about much today. I will watch the screen at intervals and be here for you.

      I want to say to you that it would be terrific if you could determine that this Saturday is the last one that will be ruined by the addiction. Your son is harassing your partner, I believe, through facebook. I don’t understand facebook but can he close down your son’s ability to harass him. Maybe he could say ‘if you want to talk about anything other then money or threats this line of communication stays open – if not I will close it down’. He will have to do it if the threats and manipulation don’t stop.

      Your partner is important to ‘your’ health San. I know how far this addiction can push us to lose that which is precious to us – perhaps you could let him know that you don’t ‘need’ him to be in the line of fire.

      Talk to me until you can find a physical person to talk to. I am going to get a coffee but I will check back soon.

      V

    • #1602
      san250
      参加者

      Thanks Velvet.

      I do understand about the sibling thing and I make a concerted effort not to discuss her brothers with my daughter. It was only because she worked at the hospital that I broached the subject. I also understand that she has lived with the addiction first hand and is more than aware what it entails.

      I had a sister, she committed suicide at 23 when I was pregnant with my cg, who is about to turn 23. I don’t have any other siblings. I remember my mother telling people about my sister when she died, things that had happened in her life. And I would think, that wasn’t her, that happened to me! I felt rejected, unloved etc.

      I am positive my partner and daughter have had enough and I agree that in most families someone bares the brunt of things and while someone is doing that the pressure is off the others. Well I am not as strong as I usedto be and I am at cracking point. I have other things going on in my life and I do not have the energy to deal with everything on my own. I will make an appointment to see the doctor tomorrow, luckily his office is opposite the physiotherapist I’m seeing every other day at the moment. I go back to work tomorrow too and french lessons in the evening. I think its going to be a busy day. Thanks for caring Velvet, Adele and Monique. Take care x

    • #1603
      san250
      参加者

      It’s good to have another view and to try to understand the urges to gamble and get money. It’s good to understand the relentlessness is part of the addiction.

      Unfortunately, I am in another country to my cg and have been ill, so haven’t been well enough to travel there or have any money to go there. It takes a lot of organisation to get my cg here too, as there is no where for him to stay. Having said that I am trying to arrange a visit in a few weeks time, to surprise him for his birthday. But there are so many things that need to be put in place before that can happen. I feel the need to see him face to face as its nearly a year since I saw him and the last time he saw me, I was really really ill and undergoing heavy chemo. On top of everything else I know my illness has effected him and he has had little if any support from anyone regarding it. Life is complicated.
      Thank you for giving me a different insight Vera x

    • #1604
      monique
      参加者

      Hi San.
      I saw your earlier post as I was about to go out this morning and couldn’t answer immediately – now I am back and am glad to see that you have had some replies. I hope this helps you feel connected with real care and support, even if it is from ‘cyber friends’.
      I agree that you have – and have had – a huge amount to cope with and some good therapy would be advisable. I hope you get some joy from seeing your doctor. I don’t know what the ‘system’ is over in your country. Here in the UK, GPs are not always able to refer with any speed or affordability – there are many well-qualified and willing counsellors and psychotherapists, but they have to work privately, as they can’t easily get employment in the health system. So people often have to look elsewhere or face a very long wait. I am aware I could sound negative here, but I am trying to offer something positive and realistic. I don’t know what your budget is if you find you have to pay for therapy, but it is always worth asking if a therapist has a ‘sliding scale’ of fees or will come to some suitable arrangement, for example, through a block advanced booking for an agreed number of sessions.
      The BACP (British Association for Counselling and Psychotherapy) can help with choosing a therapist here and I think also internationally, through their website. Perhaps also the UKCP (UK Council for Psychotherapy). Some therapists now do online work, too – this is of course not ‘face to face’, but you book your time in the same way and write and reply in ‘real time’ and one to one. If you have difficulty finding someone locally, I am wondering if this would be a good alternative. I recently met someone offering this sort of work.
      That is very sad about your sister and your own experiences after her death. I am sure it would be useful to be able to have a space to work through those painful feelings you describe, especially as you now see sibling problems in the next generation and hear self-destructive things from your young son. Things that feel particularly painful for us in the here and now can often be so, because they have a sense of ‘repetition’ about them – it is like an old wound being re-opened.
      I hope you find the help you need. You have determination within, even though you struggle, and this will serve you well.
      Always wishing you well.
      Monique

    • #1605
      san250
      参加者

      Thanks Monique. I will find out soon how the system for therapy works here. I have health insurance here so maybe that can pay for it, i’m not sure. It’s all new territory here for me. I’ve had NSH counselling and also private, so I am well aware of what to expect. I’ve also had online counselling through skype – which was the best and if I ever have enough money to do it again I will! However, this was when I was married and needed it and he paid for it with much reluctance.

      I’ve seen the brilliant MacMillan Cancer Support offer therapy too, so maybe my equivalent here might be able to offer me something too. I have lots of options to find out about, but I will, don’t you worry.

      I’ve been speaking via the internet with my son this afternoon. Treading very carefully and trying not to get hooked in. I’ve agreed to send him online kebab, so he can’t gamble with that, unless he sells it. He tells me right now he doesn’t want to know. I think the beating he has had has shook him up but I am not naive to think this will last long. I can only hope. Signing off for tonight. Take care everyone xx

    • #1606
      velvet
      モデレーター

      Hi San

      I am glad you are putting plans into action to protect your health.

      I wasn’t trying to teach my granny to suck eggs when I talked about siblings etc., I hoped to let you know that I understood and I only understood because I had stood where you are standing now.

      Our stories are different but you, Monique, Vera and I are all mothers and in that we have an innate understanding of each other, I think.

      I hope that with your replies you feel stronger. I liked your line about getting therapy ‘I have lots of options to find out about, but I will, don’t you worry’.

      Is your son saying he has been beaten up? Unfortunately even a beating does not necessarily stop the addictive drive. I am glad you are saying you are not naïve to think the shaking up will last long. I think when you think ‘this’ will wake my CG and it doesn’t it is another kick in the teeth – it is better, in my opinion, to take each day as it comes without expecting any change but of course to never give up hope.

      Your last post does seem a little more positive. I am fascinated by an online kebab and pleased you are feeding your son, not his addiction.

      Well done

      V

    • #1607
      adele
      参加者

      Hi San,

      I’ve been busy with company and other things, but I at least read on the site every day, and just wanted to pop in and let you know I’m thinking about you and hoping to see another Un-enabling post from you soon.

      Those of us who are Mothers do understand in a way those who aren’t Mothers never could. But no one that loves a cg is going to judge you for decisions you make (right or wrong) out of love for your son.

      Sometimes I think it is just too difficult to make the “right” decision – our hearts can’t take it. And sometimes, life’s complications make it too difficult to know what the “right” decision is.

      For me it took lots of practice to remove “too difficult” from my thinking so I could make the “right” decision (for me) time and time again. While it has never been easy to do, it did get easier to do because I try to make decisions with my head instead of my heart – as a practice rather than in reaction. And then I look for affirmation and support here. Does that make sense? (lol)

      Obviously I cannot know that I would do the same if my cg was my precious step-daughter (whom I love as my own) instead of my husband, but I’d like to think I could eventually.

      I DO think I can say with near certainty that, if she were to become a cg now -having personally seen how refusing enablement has allowed my husband to begin to turn his life around (long way to go but definitely making progress) – I would be tough as nails with her. But I would also need therapy and a tremendous amount of support to deal with my emotions and guilt.

      Anyway, I’m rambling and writing as I think …

      I hope you are doing well, emotionally and physically.

      Adele

    • #1608
      velvet
      モデレーター

      Thank you.

    • #1609
      twilight16
      参加者

      Hi Sans,
      After reading your recent updates about your son, I was taken back to my sickly, painstaking experiences with my father just little over a year ago when I lived in fear and worry for his safety. I was at the point where I was on the edge of worry feeling in my gut that more bad things were on its way. In the end he was slipping at an alarming rate, homelessness, jail, people searching for him wanting to be paid back, that I had moments when I was on the brink of helping him more than I should.
      However, there was a part of me that had a hard time doing so because I knew the addiction well. I knew it was counting on me to give in. SO the only way I saw that I could be there for him was to really separate the addiction from him. I would not give him money as this is like giving drugs to an addict and I would not give him what he gambled away. He was homeless because he would gamble his rent money, so I always kept this in mind when he would call wanting a place to stay.
      So all I could do is love him because he is my father and I still do to this day. I would see him in his tough times when possible and I would let him know that I loved him, but I would not give in to favors and I explained why. I was there to help, but not financially. I would try to reason with him about his gambling addiction, but he wouldn’t hear it, even at his lowest point.
      It is extremely difficult to love a compulsive gambler in denial but it is possible. You can still love them, yet you can always still stand your ground against the addiction. It’s a tug of war, sort of thing, but it can be done. Loving your son is what your heart wants, and what you should do but think twice about bailing him out. He will manage as they all do. Even at my father’s lowest moments, he still lived and unfortunately still gambled. We often think the worst when they are really fine.
      Take care,
      Twilight

    • #1610
      san250
      参加者

      the support from all the people on this site has been overwhelming. So a big thank you from the bottom of my heart.

      I have an appointment made with my Doctor next week (thank goodness he speaks English!). I have also booked the flights to go back to the UK for a couple of days. So I will get to see my cg on his birthday. I haven’t seen him since last December and that was when I was on morphine with no hair, three stones lighter and certainly at my worse. I think it will be good for him to see me looking well with a big mop of curly hair and more ‘with it’. I will get to see where he is living and to ‘see’ him. I can’t wait :). We will also get the chance to talk face to face.

      I am amazed at his ability to walk out of one job and the next day into another (maybe he should be an advisor for the unemployed!). With the help of a new friend he says he has self excluded himself from the nearest betting office and says he is fed up of getting nothing for his money and wants to concentrate on ‘receiving something for his money’. I know this is a long road and lots of ‘stuff’ has to be worked through. I will concentrate on helping myself so I can be strong against the addiction. I do not want to go through another weekend like the last one.

      Take care everyone.
      San x

    • #1611
      ell
      参加者

      hello san … im ell and my hb is a cg . I want to tell you how mush i admire all your power , you are somothing else my dear . I want you to know that you are on my prayers and im happy that you will see face to face your son . You are a very strong woman and very powerfull. It is an honor for me to know you . I wish you all my best wishes for your health and for your family . Take care your self san .
      with all my love ell

    • #1612
      vera
      参加者

      I have to smile when you describe your son, San! He could be mine by the description!. “Seeing the light” every now and then! “Turning over new leaves”. Walking in and out of jobs as if he is the Managing Director. He has the charm to get the job but after about 3 weeks when that charm wears off, I think it’s more likely he may not exactly “walk out”- ( more likely gets the boot! I used to worry sick over all that carry on , but worry made no difference. I gambled to escape the worry. That made A HUGE (negative difference to ME!)…
      Good to hear you will see him soon. Sounds as if you are well enough to travel so thank God for the improvement in your health. I would advice you to have some clear boundaries in place before you meet up. I’ve had so many “meetings” with my son that started off well but ended in chaos. Be prepared! Maybe set the ground rules together and in that way he will have to stick to his own terms and conditions and not blame you if things go belly up.
      My son’s birthday is next month too. I have been let down so often with birthday plans that I just do the bare minimum now to protect myself from running to the casino as a result of a “no show!”!
      Take care of your health. You don’t want any set backs an You seem to be doing well!

    • #1613
      san250
      参加者

      I had a much better weekend woooo. I explained to my cg I didn’t want a repeat of the last four weekends and would be turning off my phone for a large part of it. I went out with my partner and as it’s my birthday tomorrow and saturday was the one year anniversary of my first chemotherapy, we had much to celebrate. A friend made a birthday meal for us and then we went to the pub to enjoy the music there. After my partner and I crashed out on the sofa’s at his house for the night and staggered back in the morning!! Yesterday was a catch up of sleep!! So basically a weekend doing what I wanted (for a change) and little contact with my cg. He seems excited (as does my daughter) that I will see him next week. As it is a flying visit I will make sure the boundaries are set in place before I go. We are also making plans to be together at Christmas … the first time I will have spent the holidays with my children for four years. So things are looking up but I am not naive to understand the beast is still there in the corner waiting. Thankyou to everyone who offered me support during my turbulent time recently. Keep smiling everyone. San xx

    • #1614
      velvet
      モデレーター

      Hey San

      What a great post to read on a Monday morning and it all came down to your positivity that you were not going to let the addiction to gamble ruin your weekend.

      I am glad your son is excited about seeing you – he could have wanted to hide. A flying visit sounds just the ticket – that in itself is a boundary.

      I am pleased to read that you are so aware that the beast will still be in the corner of the room – it doesn’t sleep for Christmas or any other family occasion that should be joyous. I think when we are complacent it can leap out and bite us especially when there are others present who are affected by it too. I think it is a time when it is important to accept the only person you can change and control is ‘you’.

      Today is what matters and today you are smiling and that is wonderful.

      I hope that tomorrow is a wonderful day for you – you deserve a truly happy birthday. I will not expect to see you in the group but I will be thinking about you.

      V

    • #1615
      monique
      参加者

      Hi San. So glad to hear you have had a better weekend, having been able to according to your own determination.
      I wish you a very Happy Birthday and I hope you enjoy your ‘flying visit’ to your son (and daughter?)
      Monique

    • #1616
      vera
      参加者

      Happy Birthday San!

      Turning off the phone is often the best medicine!
      “What the eye doesn’t see, the heart doesn’t feel!”
      (sometimes!)

    • #1617
      san250
      参加者

      I’ve just returned from my trip to the UK to see my children and sort out ‘stuff’. I am returning with a HUGE sense of relief and freedom as my 3 year old divorce finally comes to an end woohoo.

      My CG met me off the train and our hug was special. It was great to see where he is living and to meet his flatmates. They have taken him under their wing and are a bit older than he is. One of them said, ‘He’s not a bad lad, his only thing is the gambling but we got him to self exclude from the bookies.’ To which I replied, ‘Which one of you did that?’ They looked shocked but when I found out which one I gave him a kiss on the cheek and said Thankyou. My CG hated that place when he first arrived there but he said its beginning to feel like home and a family there now. We had a long talk about the future and living there. We went out for dinner with my daughter, she gave him a hug too. I read somewhere not to exclude CG from family things. My son and daughter are looking forward to joining me at Christmas and all being well I will now be in a position to return to the UK for visits more frequently. I didn’t give my CG any money but I did buy him some new shoes and left two food shopping cards which he can use for food. We visited the pound shops and he asked if I could treat him to some gloves. We also went into a ‘gaming shop’ and my heart sank when he was at the counter buying a game. Instantly I thought ‘Where did he get the money to buy that?’ When we came out of the shop he showed me the game and said guess how much that was. I guessed but was wrong, he showed me the receipt and he had bought it for 49p with the last pennies in his pocket. It is so hard to trust and jump to the wrong conclusion. The trust thing is going to be a long process I feel.

      It was a flying visit but a much needed one. Looking forward to catching up with you all soon, right now I have washing up to do as the cleaning fairies didn’t quite make it to the sink! Happy sunday everyone. San xx

    • #1618
      monique
      参加者

      Dear San
      That is a lovely ‘report’. I am glad you had such a good visit. I think you have been able to be both strong and in control of ‘boundaries’ as well as showing love and compassion. I know there will be difficulties still to face, but it sounds like you have a sense of direction and the skills to cope. And I am sure you just had joy in seeing your family and enjoying their company.

      Continue well,

      Monique, Gambling Therapy Team

    • #1619
      velvet
      モデレーター

      Hi San
      I am so pleased it all went well and that you have met the flatmates and that the reality was as your son had said.

      I think it is a shame when any family members is excluded deliberately from family occasions but it is important to realise, as I am sure you do, that family occasions can be fraught with sibling rivalry in the best regulated families. It is the addiction to gamble that is unwelcome and I’m afraid it can slip through when, Complacency, the underestimated guest leaves the door ajar. I think we will probably talk about this nearer to Christmas but following your excellent trip and with your daughter hugging her brother I think you have good reason to hope for a happy time.

      Shoes, gloves and food were good things to give – I am glad you were in the pound shop and not Harrods.

      Without judging and with the usual proviso that I cannot tell you what to do – if it was me I wouldn’t go into a gaming shop with a CG. What did happen in the shop was find fine and I agree it is easy to jump to the wrong conclusions but I think it is good to say ‘I cannot stop you going in to such a place but I chose not to go with you’. It could certainly be argued that it was better that you were with him and therefore able to see that what he was doing but gaming shops are not good for CGs.

      The pathological gambler, while not technically gambling, (not using money) has a number of ways of ‘staying in action’. Pathological gamblers must continue to use money and while they stop gambling with it, uncertainly and risk continue to be part of their lives. Many games can keep the mind distorting addiction alive. If you feel the game could encourage ‘mind bets’ then maybe you could encourage him in other pursuits and hobbies

      I admit I do want to hear that your son is seeking support as there is a minefield of danger around of which he will probably be unaware. We often get CGs in ‘My Journal’ who are hoping that their gaming is going to be passed as acceptable and it is always better when another CG tells them, it is not.

      However I don’t mean to put a dampener on your smashing trip. Your son has progressed and is recognising his problem, he has friends who are not CG who are trying to help him and he has seen his mum, who has cuddled him.

      I know we will talk again soon but in the meantime if you want to come back on anything I say, you know where I am.

      V

    • #1620
      san250
      参加者

      The Secret of change is to focus all of your energy, not on fighting the old, but on building the new.

      I love this quote. We only have a certain amount of energy, use it wisely. One common thread I am picking up on our forum is people running out of energy and trying to fight the ‘beast’ (addiction).
      With thanks to this site I think I am getting better at recognising when the beast is active and now try very hard not to give it the attention and energy I once did. Not to say I don’t slip up on occasion! but I’ve recognised it happens when I am either very busy with something else or not feeling very well.
      Sending much love and strength to you all.
      San x

    • #1621
      monique
      参加者

      That is an excellent quote. It is interesting how some special quotes really sum something up for us and we then carry those words around in our head as a support.

      Yes, indeed, so much energy is spent on fighting the old, including trying to save the cg in our lives – but it just seems to be the natural course of events that we have to go through that in order to discover how useless that battle is so then we can begin on the new task. Sounds like you have ‘seen the light’ and, although it is not always easy, you have a really good sense of how to go ahead now.

      Your posts are so good to read.

      Best wishes,

      Monique

    • #1622
      san250
      参加者

      ‘I admit I do want to hear that your son is seeking support as there is a minefield of danger around of which he will probably be unaware’.
      He won’t accept support or professional help. He thinks he can do this on his own. I feel like a broken record urging him to seek help. He now says he has turned his gambling addiction into another addiction. I now don’t believe a word he says (not that he I don’t believe he is up to no good), I guess I don’t trust anything he says. Right now I don’t want him with me at Christmas, right now I don’t want anything to do with him! Need to get to a group but I’m off to the hospital for another top-up today. Feeling really fed up.

    • #1623
      monique
      参加者

      Hi San.
      I can see that things have taken a ‘down turn’ between you and your son. I looked back at your previous post as I remembered that quote about ‘building the new’. That rebuilding is about you and sometimes there are hitches in the reconstruction process – you know what it can be like with the builders in the ordinary physical sense.

      But you will get back to your primary focus, I am sure, because you now already have a history of building yourself anew as well as the one of being worn down. It is so frustrating when the cg refuses to cooperate with what would be good for them – it’s back to the same theme as ever that only the cg can make the choices. It’s a shame you have to miss group and go to hospital, but I hope you feel all right after treatment and will do something really nice for yourself as soon as possible.

      Christmas can be difficult for lots of people for lots of reasons, but it is not quite here yet and there may be other changes again before then. Look after yourself today.

      Thinking of you.

      Monique

    • #1624
      san250
      参加者

      Hi Monique, You are so right in that “there may be other changes again before Christmas!” So many changes, however, I am taking them one step at a time and one day at a time. When I have something ‘big’ happening in my life, this is how I now chose to deal with things. I have wasted so much precious energy and time in worrying about things, that normally didn’t even happen, so my motto now is not to worry about things UNTIL they happen.

      I wanted to share my thoughts on something Velvet wrote in another thread ” if your (cg) is going to gamble they will find a way and no amount of anxiety on our part will make an iota of difference – living your life in constant expectation of a disaster is soul destroying”. I think it takes a while for this old penny to drop and believe if you expect disaster all the time you will receive it. Life will always deliver what you desire/think. A good friend of mine has thought me to stop those negative thoughts in their tracks and in this instance (not to give the addiction MY mental energy or time). It takes a while to adjust to think that way but you can stop those negative thoughts in a blink and turn around the situation for YOU. I would be constantly thinking about my cg and what he was up to and waiting for that next phone call and sure enough it would come and we would play out the enabler and cg roles to perfection. At the end of the conversation the only winner was the addiction. I would be left feeling sideblinded, used and of course financially worse off. Now I make an effort NOT to phone him so often to find out what he is up to, I turn my phone off at night and I chose the time when I want to deal with him. I am learning to take control of what I can control and trying hard not to let the addiction get the better of me. I believe I have turned a corner and would like to thank everyone on this site for your valued support and cyber hugs :). (At the moment I need to write these feelings down and its good to know I have a safe place to do this) Thank you. San x

    • #1625
      velvet
      モデレーター

      Dear San

      That is one terrific post and one tremendous corner – well done

      V

    • #1626
      san250
      参加者

      but to me this is relevant and explains why working on yourself is so important. It’s written by Melanie Tonia Evans and although she primarily deals with Narcissistic Abuse Recovery and Relationships, she also explains why people turn to addictions of all sorts, why people abuse and why people let themselves be abused. However, if you can reach this state by working on yourself, you will be not be affected by people and their addictions/problems.

      Why is it so important to enjoy being alone with ourselves.

      1) If you are needy and lonely you are dependent on others to grant you good feelings.

      2) If you feel empty you are at risk at tolerating abuse in order to try to receive love, attention or approval.

      3) You will hold others responsible for not ‘giving you yourself’.

      4) You may cling to others when they don’t ‘give you yourself’.

      5) You are not free to interact healthily and lovingly with people from a mature, developed, stable adult centre.

      The bottom line…it is impossible to be in a healthy relationship with anyone else until you have mastered a relationship with yourself.

    • #1627
      san250
      参加者

      Okay so here we go …. cg is in full swing gamble mode. Is running up large phone bills because of the gambling. Is not attending family meals because he doesn’t want to ‘answer’ annoying questions about his life. Is annoying family members with his rudeness. Tomorrow he is due to come to me, has to get up early to catch the plane.

      In all this, I’m not reacting, just letting it flow. Not judging, not getting angry, nothing. Now if I had not been warned about these things I think I would be climbing the walls by now but I’m not. I am hoping my cg will be on that plane tomorrow but I can not worry about that now. Only time will tell what’s going to happen.

      Hope everyone else is okay and has read Velvet’s article on Christmas/holiday times too. Thank you Velvet. Best wishes San x

    • #1628
      samantha7
      参加者

      Hi San
      I have read your posts feeling your thoughts as my son is also a CG.I have found this forum the last few months and have after 10 years started to realise that I am enabling my son .I haves started my own recovery and am feeling empowered.Last year he was coming to see me then used his wage to go on a gamble so had no money to come and had a stomach bug so was on his own .I felt so bad and had a terrible emotional time.This year he has arranged for me to have his wage into my account.He is here and it has its difficulties but I am trying to put into place what I have learnt.Just wanted you to know was thinking of you and keep strong to what you have learnt.
      Sam x.

    • #1629
      monique
      参加者

      San – I can see things are not easy for you right now, but it’s great that you are able to use such restraint and wisdom. Do continue to look after yourself and I hope your son will make wiser choices in the days to come. My good wishes are with you as always. I like your posts – they are so ‘real’ and so honest.

      Sam – good to hear from you, too, and I hope you will find the support and help you need.

      Monique

    • #1630
      monique
      参加者

      Hi Sam – have you started a thread of your own? It would be good to get to know more of your story, if you want to share it, so that more people can respond and support you.

      With my very best wishes,

      Monique

    • #1631
      jenny46
      参加者

      I think the whole concept of enablement is huge, where does it start where does it end. It is interesting that many of us have had the same stunts thrown in our direction and fell for them time and time again, we worried for what turns out to be false reasons, I know I have had the police out twice when I worried that my partner was suicidal even though I knew it was a ploy deep down.

      I remember San being estranged from my partner for a few months and worrying about starvation etc only to find that when I actually saw him he was actually quite fat. Unsurprisingly he had been living with another woman/enabler again, my worries were unfounded. My worries were generated by him San and my insight into the life that I though he was living they were not actually reality.

      I have to say though, as sad as it may have made you feel the toilet paper incident gave me a giggle. ‘Let he with smarting arse consider the benefits of his gambling !’ Don’t believe a word of it. The more discomfort he creates for himself, the nearer the time comes when he may just want to choose a better way of living.

      Unfortunately I believe that in all the elaborate lies the focus is only one thing. The next gamble is the only thought. The money is the tool and how it is gained is pretty much irrelevant. You and the pain you feel, the dilemmas you face, the trouble that’s caused does not figure in the equation. At that moment in time nothing else matters (or so i’ve been told)

      Who knows why a CG gambles, the concept of escapism springs to mind and by the sheer nature of the word used in the wrong place or the right place along with many other words can have a habit of dumping responsibilty. It may be a coping mechanism that he has learnt along the way, it may be all sorts of things but it does not take away the choice that he has to gamble or not. It does not take away his choice to get help or not …………

      It is good that you have thought about you in response to his visit if it does take place. I think the quietness with how you intend it to be will speak volumes to your son, you will be sending out a message that you are in control of you – tough for a hungry addiction to take. Actions speak a lot louder than words.

      I hope your health is stable and your time with your son is peaceful. Keep your eye on those toilet rolls and find the time to enjoy yourself.

      Jenny

    • #1632
      ell
      参加者

      I want to send you all my best wishes to you and your family . You are in my prayers san . Take care as much you can your health , and i hope your son to feel the click to try to see a life with no addiction.
      You are a special woman san
      with all my love ell

    • #1633
      san250
      参加者

      Thankyou for my replies and best wishes. My cg is with me along with my other children. I’ve a busy day ahead, I don’t have a large fridge so the meat is outside behind the shutters waiting to come in … some advantages of living here! Much love to you all, Happy Christmas, Joyeux Noël. San x

    • #1634
      monique
      参加者

      Thinking of you and your family today, San. Joy and Peace.

      Monique

    • #1635
      san250
      参加者

      Apparently, yesterday I inadvertently held a ‘mirror’ up to the beast which led to a massive gambling ‘stint’ on my computer right into front of me, without me knowing. So today, I am left feeling numb, realising my cg is nowhere near seeking help, has no intention of seeking help although he is not happy with his life. I have to let go and let him get on with it, whatever that may be. We all head back to the UK tomorrow and my children back to their lives and for me, a shopping spree and a welcome break to see my father. I’m feeling I’m done with all this. What’s the old saying, you can lead a horse to water but you can’t make him drink it. And you can’t put wise heads on young shoulders (or something like that!). Need to surround myself with positive people and let other’s get on with their lives in what ever way they want to go. I’m fed up with miserable people around me even family!
      Onwards and upwards my cyber friends. Take Care San x

    • #1636
      velvet
      モデレーター

      Hey San
      You survived Christmas and you are looking good. Ok so your CG’s visit did not go as well as you had hoped but here you are bouncing back and looking forward to a shopping spree – well done.
      I’m positive San, positive that you have done well and not given into your son’s addiction, positive that you can put this incident behind you and get on with your life.
      Who needs misery?
      Speak soon
      V

    • #1637
      monique
      参加者

      You continue well with the kind of attitude that remains wise and protects you, no matter what is going on. As you say, you can take the horse to water …… I have that experience too. I hope you find some fun, peace and joy for yourself in the days and in the year to come. Best wishes, Monique

    • #1638
      san250
      参加者

      Well since Christmas, my cg has gone all quiet. When I talk to him he is very calm and offering very little. I can only assume he has found another enabler, but as its not good to assume, I can only hope for the best as a mother does.

      From my point of view since the big realisation he is not ready for ‘help’, I have let go ‘big time’. I have stopped pushing him in the direction of help. I have tried to get on with my own life, spent more quality time with my partner, gone back to work (and am not constantly checking my phone to see if my cg ‘needed’ me). I turn off my phone at night now to ensure a good night’s sleep. My cg has blocked me on the chat, I know he is on line because he has not blocked my partner :), strangely this is a good thing. We can both get on with our own lives without constant reminders of the addiction. A mother’s ‘concern’ over her son’s welfare and for a son the enabling lifeline readily available. Although what happened on Christmas Day was painful I think it served it’s purpose and I am enjoying the silence, filling the void with other things.

      I have another scan in 10 days and am praying the ‘cancer beast’ inside me is still sleeping. Interestingly my son said he doesn’t not see the illness in me any more. I know it’s still there but it hopefully sleeps :). I won’t remind him I have a scan and will wait until I know the result. I realise he can not handle it.

      So for now signing off, wishing everyone dealing with ‘active addiction’ cgs strength, love and eternal hope. This is a great place for support and advice. Take Care San xx

    • #1639
      worriedmama
      参加者

      Hi San
      I too am the mother of a CG. Mine still lives at home and I too have started to turn phone off at night or even when I know he is in the middle of a binge. At first it was hard but I like you have learned to appreciate the peace and quiet. I also think it forces them to look elsewhere for their drama fix.
      I will pray and keep my fingers crossed for your upcoming scan result .
      Take Care of Yourself!!

    • #1640
      monique
      参加者

      San, as always it is good to hear from you. You write with such wisdom, which you gain from your experiences, happy ones and not so happy ones.

      I hope all goes well for your scan and that the results will be as you would wish.

      Keeping you in my thoughts.

      Monique

    • #1641
      san250
      参加者

      Thank you for your reply, I found it fascinating. I really value it.

      My son has good points, that show when the addiction is not in play. In him I see a ‘little boy’ very lost, low self esteem, a tortured soul. I see him playing at life, on a self destruct path, not knowing which way to turn. He does not have a focus, a point to get up in the morning. Now add into the mix the addiction and the lies and manipulation to get money. I don’t believe anybody likes to be lied to? And the lies can be very real. The suicide threats.

      Don’t we all have our demons/vices? I would overeat when dealing with my ex husband and children. When I started my recovery and finally got away from him, I discovered why I was overeating and two reasons showed up:- cream cakes etc don’t shout at you, they became my friends, they felt good to eat but then the guilty kicked in. The other reason – if I was fat no man would show an interest in me and I wouldn’t have to deal with my ex-husband and his accusations and paranoia. I had no confidence to express how I felt at all. After recovery and alot of self work if I have ANYTHING on my mind now, I voice my opinion and work through any problems right there and then. This took 3 years of hard work to rid myself of old beliefs and replace them with good positive ones.

      What did you mean by ‘Giving a wide berth to people who torment us works better?’ In what way do they torment you?

      Good luck with your own recovery. Best wishes San
      I like quotes and this one seemed fitting with this thread 🙂
      ‘Inner peace begins the moment you choose not to allow another person or event to control your emotions. — Unknown’

    • #1642
      san250
      参加者

      I’ve learnt over the last few years that when people are not happy with their lot they turn to things outside of them to find the happiness that isn’t inside them, be it gambling, drink, drugs, food, sex, shopping, whatever it is that fills the void inside. I guess it takes a brave soul to face whatever it is that is making them unhappy. I can only say that when you break through that, the other side is a beautiful, peaceful place full of love. Toxic people have to go … be it so called friends and family.

      The more I have worked on my own issues, the stronger I have become in dealing with such people. With the help of this site and the wonderful people who work here I have been able to arm myself with ways to be proactive with my cg. I am like you in that the times he ‘gets’ to me are when I am unwell, tired, underpar but I am learning new ways to deal with that too. I’ve had many conversations with him to try to understand what it is that is causing his unhappiness and recently we have made great strides in understanding each other’s point of view. But I think my constant ‘go and get help pleas’ were driving him to distraction and I now understand he is no where near ready to look inside of him for that peace. He is so scared to even take a peep at ‘the other side’ or inside the box. I will always be here for him when he is ready but just right now I have to let go. Someone once said to me that in order for people to grow they have to go through whatever it is on their own, even if YOU know the answers to their problems. So when I relate that to my cg I think ‘I’m letting you go so you can grow’. If I continue to always find answers for him, he is not living his life, I am living my life through him and that is not what I want. I guess also because I have faced with my own mortality, I more than ever want him to grow, in case I’m not around for him.

      You say ‘He keeps harping back to the same issues and refuses to let go’. For me that would be the starting point. Maybe you could both get some sort of help, mediation perhaps, so you can quietly and rationally sit down and talk it through, without both or one of you getting angry about it? It sounds like he is maybe stuck at that point in his life?

      When my ex husband’s domestic violence turned physical I know I got stuck for months at that point. I really was stuck and it took so much work to move me on. I was eventually diagnosed with PSTD. I always say ‘never, ever underestimate the effects of any type of abuse.’ I know my cg was subjected to my ex’s abuse too and I am sure some of that is why he is as he is. Put that along side my complete co-dependency at the time and it’s no wonder he has problems! I have apologised to all my children for my part in their childhood upbringing and have managed to be frank and honest with them. And listened to their side of the story too. I wasn’t a strong woman then, I was completely under the spell of my ex husband and didn’t know there was a different way to live! I feel stupid even typing that now but that is how it was at the time. I can happily say that what I have now is nothing like my marriage and I can walk with my head held up high now and no longer live in fear (a horrible place to be). Onwards and upwards … wishing you a ‘strong’ day.

    • #1643
      monique
      参加者

      Hi San
      As ever, you write with great clarity and wisdom. I’m sure many others are inspired by your story as it evolves – I know I am anyway.

      Best wishes again for ALL aspects of your life.

      Monique

    • #1644
      匿名
      ゲスト

      Hello San

      I am a CG !!

      In the past I have weaved the most extraordinary web of lies and deceit; I found myself capable of constructing the most fantastical of tales to fuel my addiction.

      I’m not making excuses for either myself or your son; I can’t really explain it, other than to say that obsession is an extremely powerful thing – it can consume you to the point where you are a living, breathing shadow of who you truly are.

      You are doing completely the right thing – I hope that you can move forward and safeguard your son and yourself. If you ever doubt what you are doing, then don’t – there are people who took a very hard line with me; I found it exceptionally hard at the time but now I am enormously grateful beyond words – your son definitely WILL be the same one day.

      Best wishes as Monique so eloqently put for ALL aspects of your life

      Ed

    • #1645
      velvet
      モデレーター

      Dear San
      I pray that your scan went well for you today.
      You are in my thoughts
      As Ever
      V

    • #1646
      madge456
      参加者

      I re-read a lot of your thread and found your words inspiring and full of comfort. I pray your scan was negative and that you remain healthy. How brave and strong you are to be dealing with all of what you have…I pray my strength grows from the words of people like you so that I too can “be better”

      I resonate with the PTSD piece – i feel like I could be dx with that too. I am not prepared for another round of personal therapy (I was in individual therapy for 15 years and at least another 5 on and off with my CG – I feel like i should know everything by now!) but I think all the trauma from the far past and the nearer past takes it toll. My CG says he is working to reform himself (6 months gamble and sex free!) but I don’t know how I can ever trust him again.

      And I think the piece about apologizing to your kids was so spot on – I always try too be honest with them about my many short comings and let them know I love them despite being a flawed mother.

      Thank you for showing the dark path lit up for those of us who still stumble in darkness…

      much love
      M

    • #1647
      san250
      参加者

      Here as promised V an update on my scan. The Cancer is unchanged, still asleep, no bigger, no smaller hurrayyy!!! However, the scan has brought two other health concerns to the fore so I have more tests in the coming weeks. This chemo stuff is strong and I believe messes other bits of you up!! The doctor did stress it was not urgent but needed to be investigated … oh the joy. I also had my antibody top up yesterday, so should be full of energy again for a few weeks :).

      At least this news has taken my mind off my cg and his adventures.

      Last night I dreamt that my dead sister visited my father and told him she had come for me. He persauded her to go away and come back another time hahahaha. It was a very vivid dream!

      So I am back to the One day at a time, one scan at a time and try not to worry until we know what we are dealing with. The good news is these new health concerns are NOT cancer because they would have shown up. Also I have another 6 months before I have to go through the Scanxiety again and it will be a ‘normal’ scan not the radioactive one.

      I have read a fantastic article on ‘the ego’ this week which I may share in the Family and Friends Topics forum as there are certainly bits in there relevant to us.

      Wishing everyone lots of strength to stay true to yourself and not to let that ‘beast’ get to you today and beyond. Best wishes San xx

    • #1648
      monique
      参加者

      Dear San
      It is good to read your update. You have learned so much about managing difficulties and uncertainties in life. Always an inspiration.
      Every good wish,

      Monique

    • #1649
      velvet
      モデレーター

      Dear San
      I am so, so pleased the terror sleeps on and I hope to hear the other issues are resolved soon.
      We can only live one day at a time and I think knowing that helps us choose not to allow another person or event to control us. Worrying about yesterday and/or tomorrow allows us too much time to let ‘what ifs’ and ‘if onlys’ enter our heads.
      I look forward to reading your post on ‘the ego’ – it sounds like a good thing for getting the little grey cells moving. Perhaps you could put it in this forum as a separate thread because the topic forum didn’t move across from the old site very well.
      I appreciate the expression your ‘cg’s adventures – I think it is saying you have listened to him without giving his addiction the reaction it wanted. It will only be when he achieves a gamble-free life that he will fully appreciate how much you loved him when you refused to enable.
      I look forward to speaking to you again soon.
      V

    • #1650
      san250
      参加者

      Thank you once again for your good wishes. I don’t feel very inspirational Monique but I believe I know what you are saying. I have acquired alot of ‘bouncebackability’ during my life and since the cancer thing have adopted the one day at a time. There was a point in my treatment when it went through my head, ‘I have two choices here, curl up in the corner and die or get on with it and face whatever is ahead’ I decided I was not ready to die so the second option was the one I chose. I can, however, see how people get to the dying option.

      In life it is scary to face certain situations when you have no idea of the outcome. I will put the article on the ‘ego’ up in a little while, but in there the lady refers to Breakdowns as really breakthroughs, as the breakdowns take you to the ‘other side’. I believe once you have experienced a real breakdown and come out the other side, you have faith to do it time and time again. Fear is what keeps us trapped in situations.

      In regard to my cg, he is currently involved in a world I know nothing about and I have to constantly remind myself to let him go and watch him head towards a breakdown. I cannot do this for him, I HAVE TO LET GO. It is very hard!

      Have a great weekend every one, keep strong. San xx

      PS I got confused (easily done!) the article regarding Breakdowns turn to Breakthroughs is in this article
      http://blog.melanietoniaevans.com/why-i-learnt-to-embrace-my-breakdowns/
      This helps me to keep going.

    • #1651
      san250
      参加者

      Life is certainly throwing alot of stuff my way … arghhhh… everyone around seems to be ill, including my partner, who has been my rock. We now start the ‘hospital’ rounds with him. I am waiting on biopsy results for myself (although no news is good news here and I’ve heard nothing). And the other rock in my life my father is not so good either.
      What has this to do with my cg and his gambling? … when I’m pre-occupied, under par etc etc, I think the addiction homes in on the weakness and vulnerability!! I’m tired and it’s easy to give in to his demands. I can sense I am talking to the addiction with the rage in his voice and words when I question why he wants this money. I am trying to protect my finances and he sees it as controlling him. Hello its MY money! When the confrontation gets bad he throws in ‘all I am thinking about is suicide’. And then I give in :(. When the ‘rocks’ in my life are really really ill and back and forth to the hospital, as am I, my cg’s (addiction’s) selfishness is very hard to swallow.

      The ‘controlling’ issue has raised its head alot lately and I wonder if that’s how cg’s see us, as controlling monsters? He says everyone in his life has been ‘controlling’ him for the last 5 years and he just wants to do his own thing. He says when he feels controlled it messes with his head and sends him to gamble. Because other people in my life have said, independently, that I am controlling too, I have really backed off EVERYONE! I have enough going on in my own life to concentrate on.

      The group times have changed to times that are hard for me to get to or I am asleep! Maybe just writing this down will help.

      Hoping as the forum is quiet everyone is okay and getting on with their own lives. Sending good wishes to all. San x

    • #1652
      monique
      参加者

      I am sorry to hear that you and your partner are having further problems health-wise. You certainly have more than enough to cope with and I am sure you are wise to back off, for whatever other reasons – you probably need to concentrate on just doing the absolute essentials and then resting when possible. And hopefully, finding some special moments to enjoy whatever you need to help lift your spirits.
      A mother’s heart will always be a mother’s heart, so you will feel those motherly feelings, but you have wisdom too and strength gained from past experience.
      Always wishing you well,

      Monique

    • #1653
      san250
      参加者

      Not much to report on my cg front. He told me to back off (in a nice way) and that’s what I am doing. When he calls he now asked if I am okay and we don’t talk about gambling any more. We have more ‘adult’ conversations and I am letting him get on with his own life. I miss him but I don’t miss the drama.

      In relation to my own recovery, I worked hard to re-wire some core beliefs I had and by doing so, I don’t now get the ‘gut wrenching fear’ that I once did. If I am now faced with the same triggers I don’t have a reaction to them, it’s wonderful! I’ve just read this quote and it sums up how powerful core beliefs are and our reaction to new information. Something to ponder on a Monday morning 🙂

      “Sometimes people hold a core belief that is very strong. When they are presented with evidence that works against that belief, the new evidence cannot be accepted. It would create a feeling that is extremely uncomfortable, called cognitive dissonance. And because it is so important to protect the core belief, they will rationalize, ignore and even deny anything that doesn’t fit in with the core belief.”

      Wishing everyone continued strength and successful recoveries. San x

    • #1654
      velvet
      モデレーター

      Dear San
      What a brilliant quote for a grey Monday morning. You have caused me to don my thinking cap and that is always appreciated.
      Copied and printed out – let the pondering commence
      V

    • #1655
      jenny46
      参加者

      Thanks for your lovely reply on my thread. Pleased to hear things are getting a little easier for you.

      Yes great quote, its amazing what can happen when we begin to look at ourselves, as difficult as it can be, well worth it.

      You are doing that and reaping the rewards and i’m sure that your own changes must be benefiting your CG as well whether he sees it yet or not !

      Jenny x

    • #1656
      velvet
      モデレーター

      Hi San
      I know you are not posting but I think you are probably still reading so I wanted you to know you are in my thoughts.
      I hope things have continued moving on for you and that you are getting on with your life, as you so rightly say, without the drama in it.
      V

    • #1657
      san250
      参加者

      I pop in now and then and have a read. The drama continues all around me but I am trying my hardest not to be dragged into it. I am on the edge of it!

      I am trying to make my decisions ‘conscious’ ones and then I tell whoever what my decision is and why I am making that decision. My cg ‘obviously’ doesn’t like it because I am taking control and not him or the addiction. He doesn’t like it but I am tired of pussyfooting around people. I can’t change anyone only myself and my reaction to any drama. So that’s what I am about at the moment. It’s good for me but probably not for people who know me as someone, in the past, who would put everyone and their problems before myself and my well being.

      I am hoping to have a break soon and am protecting my finances in whatever way I can, so that I can have it. My health needs a break! Another scan coming up so suffering the old Scanxiety at the moment.

      Hope you are well and best wishes to everyone else too. Learning to take my power back has been a very liberating thing!

      San x

    • #1658
      san250
      参加者

      Sharing this article to help stop the circle of abuse and co-dependency. If you have children and want them to grow up unaffected please read.
      “It is to do with our children, and how we can help them not live the lives of suffering, abuse and unconsciousness that we have, and how we can stop these cycles being passed on from generation to generation.

      This article is vital for you if you are a parent. The information in this article is essential for every parent, especially those who have been involved in abuse.

      Most of us did not come from conscious parenting. Our own parents did not come from conscious parenting, or their parents before them.

      – See more at: http://blog.melanietoniaevans.com/parents-empowering-themselves-for-their-childrens-sake/#sthash.oSgaRIzR.dpuf

      When I read threads on here, lots of the issues described in this article are mentioned.

    • #1659
      san250
      参加者

      well it’s taken me a very long time to reach this point but I am finally ready to let my son go. This time he has stepped over the line and my threshold. The details are not relevant just that I have reached that point where I have to let him go and face whatever the future has for him. I’ve stuck by him through thick and thin, i’ve recognised when the addiction is speaking, he’s had so many second chances its embarrassing, the addiction has torn my family apart and threatened my relationship with my partner. No more, i’ve finally reached my enough is enough point!

      The biggest stopper for me has been threats of suicide if I don’t send him money. Well if that’s what he wants to do, I will not stop him. I am not playing the manipulation game anymore. I will not be blackmailed by anyone. I will not be taken down with him.

      He is not ready to accept help. I will hope one day he is. Until then I will carry on with MY life.

      Hoping everyone is okay and getting on with their own lives. Best wishes San x

    • #1660
      velvet
      モデレーター

      Dear San
      I feel such sadness for you – it is a terrible decision and one that will have caused you so much heartache and taken such tremendous courage. I hope you can feel your hand in mine and draw strength.
      Of course the details are immaterial – I understand without hearing them.
      Giving a second chance or a thousand chances is not embarrassing, you were fighting for your son – who wouldn’t want to believe that maybe, just maybe yours would be different?
      I hope you can pop into a group soon there are things I would like to say in real time.
      You have been and you are amazing San – keep your head up, live your life and enjoy the good things.
      Even now it will not be easy, even now when you have made such a decision there will be times of doubt – but you have given him freedom to make better choices. Withdrawing his ability to use you is to refuse his addiction in your life – it is not removing your love or your hope.
      Be strong San – your love for him shines through your posts – I will pray for both of you.
      V

    • #1661
      monique
      参加者

      It is a hard place to be in, but you have built your strength and determination. Your son probably feels desperate, but maybe not yet desperate enough to turn the right way round in his life. We cannot do it for them, nor must we damage ourselves trying to do the impossible.
      I wish you well and will keep hope alive for the recovery of your son. In the meantime, look after yourself and make the most of all you have.
      Monique

    • #1662
      dadda
      参加者

      Hi! I want to say hi, because I read through your posts (and responses) the last time I was here and I was brought to mind of a few things by reading what you had to say. And to be honest, at first I “couldn’t relate” or so I thought, until I got to the point where you mentioned (ex) MIL and I have to say, that (your story) has made me remember that I need to be careful, about how I handle comments about the problems we’re going through as a result of PG, but also how I “help” or encourage my daughters to work through some of what has been “visited” on them through no fault of their own, particularly as I am in no position to fix much. I also wanted to let you know I appreciated the link(s) and the Conscious Parenting, too. LOL I think that goes double for the marriage, at least for me!

      But I did want to say “hi” and thanks and let you know that your words and struggle have helped me, too and I expect that will translate out at well. SO I am sending you a “hug” and a hope for “peace inside” and also, good reports in health. And this being the hardest part to figure out what to/how to or if I should say at all; I’ll try: I know sometimes we do the right thing or maybe the best thing and yet, we have no guarantee of the results. Sometimes I think the results might not be visible outside a person, especially just depending on when they happen. I know I have had to say “no more” to a person in past, so far I have not had to do that with a child (for other than a short length of time), only other relatives. But I know how painful it is if I try to imagine it or even just the short times that have happened as they are now adult. So my wish and hope and prayer for you is that you do KNOW, whether you see the results, that you made the right and best decision. But, I do hope that you do get to see the results, too.

    • #1663
      san250
      参加者

      I come to this site when things are tough and I need some ‘stay strong’ vibes. I am currently being bombared with demands for money and how my cg’s life is going to go to pot if I don’t send it. Oh and it’s all MY fault! I’m just replying ‘I don’t have it’.
      My own health has had its twists and turns since I last spoke to someone here and this week my partner has been told he has cancer too. I can’t take much more.
      Today, friday is pay day so all my cg’s money has gone and every friday he makes my life hell!! Well I’ve had enough.

      Hope you are all okay.

    • #1664
      velvet
      モデレーター

      Dear San
      Of course I am sending you ‘stay strong’ vibes, I send them to you even when you are not posting because you made such an impression on me. I so wish we could sit together – cyber space seem so inadequate at times.
      You sound as though you are feeling dwarfed by the situations around you but I know you have an inner strength and will overcome. You know I cannot tell you what to do but if it was me I would be telling my CG ‘don’t talk to me about money because I have none to give – I will end this communication if you ask for money’ and then end it if he doesn’t stop. I can hear you have had enough and I believe I can hear rock bottom. ‘No’ is such a small word but I know how hard it is to say – don’t let his addiction take away any more of the happiness you have fought for, you deserve so much more than this and you know his addiction is NOT your fault. I imagine that you are speaking to your CG for him to be penetrating your barriers like this – you are hearing his addiction too loudly – can you get back to text messages only, giving you time to think and also the ability to switch off and delete unpleasant messages?
      I am so very sorry to hear that you partner has cancer and I can only pray that it has been caught in time and he will stay strong. My hope for you is as always, that your illness has remained in remission and will continue to do so.
      I hope that your other children are giving you joy.
      I send my best wishes to you and your partner.
      Speak soon
      V

    • #1665
      san250
      参加者

      for you kind words and support. My head is all over the place at the moment. He’s started again pleading for money, says his girlfriend has walked out and its all my fault and is going to walk away for good. I’ve told him to stop emotionally blackmailing me. I wanted a peaceful, happy weekend with my partner before we get on the cancer rollercoaster with him. In one phone call and several txts that peace is shattered. I understand the addiction is talking and I know some cg’s get to understand what it does to their family and friends.

    • #1666
      madge456
      参加者

      Hi San
      I know I haven’t posted in a while but I have been reading. I am sorry to hear you are still stuck in the guilt loop that we moms often find ourselves in. I can’t give advise either but wanted to say i understand the pull between helping our kids for good or “helping” our kids which really isn’t any long term help to them at all. I don’t think any of this is “your fault”. At some point adulthood requires that our kids take responsibility fir their own lives. And even though it is painful to see them struggle – I know, I have done it myself- it is what they need to grow on their own.
      Do stay strong – for you and your partner- We all have limited internal resources and it sounds like you need to take care of yourself and your life first. Not an easy task, but I support you.
      Sending love across the miles
      Madge

    • #1667
      velvet
      モデレーター

      Hi San
      I don’t think I would go into a discussion with him about ‘emotional blackmail’ – I am not sure he would even understand the phrase while he is like this. I suggest that his sole thought is to get money to feed his addiction and he is shooting his mouth off in any direction hoping for a reaction. Once he gets a reaction, any reaction, he is in like a thing possessed – it worked before and it could work again. He is trying to wear you down San and I’m afraid the only thing I can think of for you to do positively is to go back through all your posts and remind yourself of when you were in this position before and see how well you survived and then put more steel into your barriers.
      You know that his blaming you for his girlfriend walking out is a load of old eyewash. Whether she walks away, or not, is entirely up to her. If he was thinking logically or reasonable he would never make such a ridiculous accusation.
      I don’t think he ‘understands’ what he is doing. He is out of control and just sees a brick wall blocking his way that has to be dismantled brick by brick. It’s tough to see ourselves as obstacles but when the addiction is going full pelt I think it is best to be aware that it can ride over us and move on, without a second thought. As Madge so rightly says we do only have limited resources – look after yours.
      Please keep posting
      V

    • #1668
      velvet
      モデレーター

      Hi Madge
      I hope if you are keeping a watchful eye on San’s thread you will pick this post up.
      I haven’t brought your thread up because I am not sure it is what you want – it is on page 3 if you should decided to resurrect it.
      It would be great to get an update. your words to San give little away about how you are.
      Hoping to hear
      Velvet

    • #1669
      san250
      参加者

      Thank you for your kind words, I hear you. xx

      Velvet … we shouted at each other, had time to calm down, cried and then I cleared my head. I text him and said I couldn’t do this anymore and do not want to talk about money with him. If he brings it up I will stop the communication. He can always ring me if he wants to talk about anything else. He said, Okay and told me to keep safe and hoped I felt better soon.

      I feel I’ve set a boundary and will stick to it if he starts again. It’s all gone quiet for now and my head is quiet again. xx

    • #1670
      monique
      参加者

      It is good to hear from you, although I am sorry you are having so many difficulties just now.
      You have had some good posts already, of course. I just want to add that I, too, will be thinking of you and wishing you all the strength and clarity of mind that you need to get you back to a stronger and more peaceful way of being.
      It is like the proverbial stuck record, but I can only recommend again that you really do look after yourself and your partner and try to separate out emotionally and mentally from the nasty pressure that is coming your way. I know that you know there is no point arguing or explaining things when the addiction is in full flow.
      Continuing to think of you kindly.

      Monique

    • #1671
      monique
      参加者

      We must have been writing at the same time! I have just now seen your reply to Velvet and Madge. You have already made things better for yourself. You have the experience and the wisdom to do what is most helpful – we all have moments of desperation, especially when under a lot of pressure, but when we have learned from previous testing times, we can find the way forward again. It is good to call out to those who care at the bad moments. Continue well.

      Monique

    • #1672
      dadda
      参加者

      Hi, San. I am sorry to hear about the hard things that you are having to cope with, especially in regard to your partner. I am glad to see your recent posts, though, as I have wondered how you are doing. I hope that you get some encouraging news regarding your partner’s health and treatment.

      I agree you sound strong as you are maintaining in the face of what has to be (still) difficult. It seems that the focus of the difficulty changes, though we may be more able to manage our response, as we ourselves learn and grow, and I guess accept or understand better.

      I don’t disagree with anything said, but your mention about the emotional blackmail (conversation) struck a bit of a different chord with me. For some reason, things make more sense to me when I hear myself saying them out loud. Obviously, in the appropriate conversation, not just talking to myself. So while I can understand/agree that maybe it doesn’t go anywhere or get understood by the active CG, I found that it strengthened me to say some of what I was starting to understand. I think it helped my understanding, too. That may very well be a limited periof, though, as I haven’t had contact for well over a year now and even before that I had come to realize that any “communication” would end up breaking down to unhealthy if I didn’t “listen” and respect my own boundary, as you point out, when CG won’t. I found the attempt helpful to me for a time and I like to think that someday, in some way, maybe that thing we mention might be a seed that will bear later on, even if we are long gone from the scene.

      Anyway, I am glad to see you are there still, and sending you wishes for strength and health and as much peace as possible in all the circumstances you are faced with.

    • #1673
      san250
      参加者

      Why, oh why does it take me so long to wake up to things. I always think the best in everyone and give people more chances than I should. It’s something I’ve always done. I don’t consider myself a soft touch but something must be wrong somewhere along the lines.

      So … I told him outright that I did not want to talk about money/gambling with him again and if he started I would end the conversation. And I did for a few weeks, I was strong. He continued to gamble and by all accounts won. I think he has an antenna when my defences are down. He phones and txts when I am at work. Tells me he has lost the works money and the boss is going to the police. He tells me he cant go to jail. I tell him to man up and face his boss. I give him the money to save him from going to jail. He gambles it. I tell him to face his boss, he says he does and is shocked when he is not fired and given a second chance. I bail him out again. It all goes quiet.
      Yesterday he’s on the phone again, he’s gambled his wages and the works money again. He doesn’t know why he’s doing it. HE TELLS ME HE THINKS HE HAS A BRAIN TUMOUR. Bells ring loud and clear. I don’t give in this time, he can go to jail. I am done. I have a sleeping tumour and we are waiting for a treatment plan for mouth cancer for my partner and my cg comes out with that!

      I know its the addiction talking. It makes me feel sick. He’s a sad human being. He won’t accept professional help. There comes a time when boundaries are crossed and he’s crossed it. I wouldn’t wish cancer on anybody. It’s a cruel disease.

    • #1674
      san250
      参加者

      Thank you Vera. I needed to read that :). I hope one day he will seek the help and is truly happy. I am worn out, I don’t have the energy to continue giving this addiction any more attention.

    • #1675
      velvet
      モデレーター

      Dear San
      The bit of your post that hits home most with me, is when you beat yourself up with a stick for falling for the same old rubbish again but which one of us does not want to ‘know’ when our child needs help – which one of us can turn our backs when the ‘oh so believable’ loss of money can be put right by us.
      It doesn’t matter San if we tell ourselves a thousand times, ‘what I am hearing isn’t true – there is always that 1% that says, suppose this time it is true and it is that 1% that keeps us awake at nights.
      The brain tumour almost certainly equals the suicide threats but what if………..? Well dear San all his lies have been ‘his’ choice to make. It is ‘his’ threats that have turned him into the boy who, when he cries ‘wolf’, people no longer believe him – and it is only him that can change that.
      I am relieved when you say you still the best in everyone because I am the same. I feel that having had the addiction take control my life I ought to be more astute and more doubtful of motives but – why should we be willing to mistrust so easily, surely if this has happened to us then the addiction has won?
      What I can do now, that I couldn’t do before, is to walk away faster when my trust is threatened. I know that you have had long periods when you have achieved this too and you can do it again..
      Forget beating yourself up, get back to doing what is important, looking after you and supporting your partner through his treatment for cancer.
      In the past, all your son’s worries have been overcome, either by the instant method which is you helping him out, or the longer (more frustrating to him) method of sorting himself out. Of course one of these times he might mess up completely and not sort himself out, of course he might get caught on the wrong side of the law – it happens and that is the risk that he takes every time he gambles.
      It’s tough San but you have done so well in the past and you can do it again now. Batten down the hatches and keep his addiction out of ‘your’ life. He can change but it doesn’t appear that your son is prepared to make the effort as long as the easy options are there for him.
      Look after yourself
      V

    • #1676
      twilight16
      参加者

      Dear San,
      I read the fear in your words. I read the frustrations and the hopelessness. I have been there.
      The best advice I can give, is to retrieve yourself away from your son for a long time. I did this with my father, I shut him out completely even though we lived in the same city.
      I blocked his number from my phone and never answered unknown phone numbers. I chose this route the last few years of him terrorizing me because he knew how to get to my heart, he knew how pull me in where I felt guilty. He knew how to turn the tables, then saying I love you and when I didn’t help, he would threaten to kill himself if I didn’t cave into his demands. Of course I was a mess, but at the end I told him go ahead and guess what? He didn’t. It was the addiction bluffing.
      In these times you have to remember the last time you helped him, it did nothing, but allowed him to gamble again.
      He is so deep in the addiction that there is nothing you or anyone can do. He does not have the desire to stop, his desire is to continue to gamble.
      I realized through the years, the best defense is our recovery. Be good to you, vowing to never feed into the addiction. Remembering we have to often take extreme measures not to be abused by the addiction.

      Love,
      Twilight

    • #1677
      velvet
      モデレーター

      Dear San
      I would just like to add a postscript to Twilight’s brilliant post.
      A friend of mine is being sent texts that she doesn’t like, often during the night which disturbs her sleep. I told her to leave her phone off at least during the night. She said ‘BUT I have to keep in on in case my son who lives on the other side of the world wants me or my daughter needs help with her children. It is always the ‘but’ that leaves the door and yet it wasn’t that long ago that parents and children could not keep tabs on one another because there was no such thing as a mobile phone. I would imagine this is one of your concerns and my suggestion would be to tell your other children and friends another way of contacting you – even changing your number.
      If there really was an emergency you would be found, just as children and their parents used to be in the not so distant past.
      V

    • #1678
      madge456
      参加者

      I read you last post and my heart sank for you. The line

      “I think he has an antenna when my defences are down” really resonated with me…

      Some how our kids do know when to push when we are feeling weak. I can totally relate to the moment when the kids are asking you to do something and you have that inner moment of hesitation that says “don’t do it!” but then the mothering instinct kicks in and says “oh I need to take care of my “baby” (no matter how old they are). It is in that moment when I find myself taking a deep breath and saying to myself – “NO – I cannot compromise myself again- I must protect my mental space and health”. It is hard but it is during those times that I realize if I give all of myself up, there will be nothing left of me.

      You did right by turning him down again. His manipulation of putting the words of ‘brain tumor’ out there are more evidence of his narcissism and lack of concern over your health or the health of your partner.

      I am not in a postion to advise, but if I could I would suggest not to beat yourself up. Your actions came from a loving place (even though they are not in your best interest). Sometimes being “selfish” is the best course of action and certainly is in the face of the addictions that will take and take and take until you are literally and /or figuratively dead.

      Live. Protect yourself. You have done all you can. You are not responsible for your CG anymore. He is grown and his problems he has created are his own.

      As a mom is is super hard to do that, but your self preservation is at stake. Live for yourself. Life is so short.
      Sending my love and support to you…
      xoxo
      Madge

    • #1679
      san250
      参加者

      I just want you to know I am reading the replies as they come in and really appreciate every word. I will reply in full another time. We get my partner’s full results tomorrow and are trying to have a quiet weekend ahead of a daunting week to come. The phone I use for my son has been turned off over the weekend! I started turning my phone off at night a long time ago. It’s interesting your use the term ‘Narcissism’ Madge, my ex husband was one and all of my children show traits of it :(.
      I have to go now but I will be back later in the week. Thankyou all so much xx

    • #1680
      madge456
      参加者

      Narcissism never occurred to me either about my CG. His therapist brought it up and it was like the light bulb went off! Of course! That is how my CG could abuse all of us because it was ALL ABOUT HIM!
      Narcissism will never care about you or anyone else. Until your CG learns empathy narcissism will always win.

      I will be keeping you and your partner in my thoughts as you deal with the news of this week. May it be good news.
      xoxo
      Madge

    • #1681
      monique
      参加者

      Just a note to say you are in my thoughts as you make your way through what you call a ‘daunting’ week. You will somehow find the strength to face each day and all that happens, I am sure. I’m glad you are getting support from people’s posts and that you are looking after yourself.
      With very best wishes,

      Monique

    • #1682
      berber
      参加者

      Dear San,

      Just want to wish you strength and please know that I am thinking of you.

      X0x0

    • #1683
      san250
      参加者

      Firstly, thank you all so much for your loving supportive messages. They really do help :). xx

      My partner is going to hospital everyday this week apart from today for meetings with radiotherapists, oncologists etc and on friday has an operation to insert a stomach peg so he can feed. We find out what dates he will have his radiotherapy and chemotherapy. Our hospital is 3 train journeys away and costs al!
      I have given most of my money to my cg to help him set up his life and he promised (now laugh) to pay me back and set up a direct debit for a very small amount each week.
      In this country if someone gives up their job to care for someone there is no provision for a ‘carer’s allowance’ so I have an agreement with my employers for the next 8 weeks where I just have to work 2 of them and can care for my partner while he goes through his treatment.
      I explain this to my cg and ask he sets up the direct debit to help me through this time. Bear in mind he actually earns more than me.
      I expect most of you know what’s coming! I was barraged with excuses why he could not do this and it ended in verbal abuse hurled my way and no offer of help. I kept relatively calm said he was unbelievable and to leave me alone. We agreed for him to go and live his life and for me to go and live my life.
      I love my son but I don’t like my son.
      So now no contact for the weekend and I have been able to enjoy a stressfree, free from emotional abuse weekend before my partner embarks on his treatment plan. I feel relief. My daughter is on standby to come and help me too.

      If you want to do something for me now, please send good vibes my way to help me get through this next phase of my life. We are both really scared.

      San xx

    • #1684
      velvet
      モデレーター

      Consider it done – my thoughts and prayers are with you both

    • #1685
      monique
      参加者

      Hi San. Continuing to think of you fondly.

      Monique

    • #1686
      velvet
      モデレーター

      Dear San
      I hope your partner’s treatment is going well and that you are not getting stress from your son.
      Thinking about you
      Velvet

    • #1687
      san250
      参加者

      Thank you ladies for your kind wishes. My partner is about to embark on chemo and radiotherapy for 8 weeks. We are exhausted with trips to the hospital to get ready for the treatment, which starts next monday.
      I haven’t had any contact with my Cg for nearly two weeks now. He text me to say I was a nasty piece of work, to which I had to tell myself I wasn’t that and he was just lashing out. I just replied Ok. Last week he attempted to make contact with a hello but I chose to ignore it. I cannot deal with his drama and I am enjoying the freedom of no contact.

      I think everyone has a point when enough is enough or people cross a line and I think I finally reached that point with him. The space has also given me some clarity over his behaviour and I have had to separate the fact he is my son but he is his own person and an adult, not my little boy anymore.
      Take care everyone.
      San xx

    • #1688
      monique
      参加者

      Thank you, San, for this message. You are amazing, even though I can see you are probably feeling like you are just struggling on through tiredness to do what is necessary. I’m glad you can find the strength to withstand the onslaught from the addiction, when it comes your way and you are getting a break for yourself – at least from that.
      Wishing you continued strength as you and your partner travel through this phase of treatment and hoping it ultimately brings better health.

      Monique

    • #1689
      san250
      参加者

      Hi everyone. A little update for you. My partner is nearly halfway through his cancer treatment. I won’t say it’s easy because the daily trek to the hospital for radiotherapy and weekly chemotherapy is no way easy. I am off work with stress while he goes through this treatment.
      About a month ago, my son, my cg and I had a huge row and it ended with me saying that it was best he led his life and I led my life. He called me ‘a nasty piece of work’ which I had to really really talk to myself and wake up to ‘No, you are not a nasty piece of work’. He was lashing out. Anyway, we have had minimal contact since. I’ve turned off the phone he could contact me on … it’s sitting in a draw and not been on for month. He left a message on Skype to say Happy Mother’s Day and hoped my partner was getting better.
      But that’s it. I don’t feel anything. I am angry at myself for giving the bookies all my money but that’s it. Don’t know what else to say right now, but hope everyone else is okay and finds the strength to resolve/walk away/let them go/get your cg to get help. I still hope one day he will ‘wake up’ and get the help he deserves.
      Best wishes
      San

    • #1690
      velvet
      モデレーター

      Dear San
      You are certainly having a really tough time, it is hard to hear the commonsense part of your brain talking when you are feeling so low but hear it you should.
      Of course those horrible words said to you are not true. Your son’s addiction is incredibly nasty and he isn’t thinking logically, rationally or with any empathy or thought for anybody else but himself. He doesn’t know how to empathise; it doesn’t suit his addiction to care for you but for all that (and hard as it is to believe) your son is still in there somewhere, the son who does love you.
      You are possibly the closest target, the one he has leant on before and succeeded in turning to his addiction’s advantage – you will always be worth another try until he faces what he has become. I firmly believe that one day he will wake up and get the help he deserves.
      I am glad you have left your phone turned off, in a drawer – you don’t need to hear his addiction spewing its false accusations, you deserve as much rest, care and patience as is possible at this time.
      Hospital trips for radiotherapy and chemotherapy are very wearing and demoralising I know, I hope the treatment will soon be complete and your partner on his way to good health – you both deserve so much more.
      Sending you both every good wish
      Velvet

    • #1691
      berber
      参加者

      Dear San, how have you been? I hope you are being ‘ left alone ‘ by your Cg. Wishing you and your husband much strength and a peaceful summer.

      With love,

      B.

    • #1692
      san250
      参加者

      Thank you for thinking of me. My partner finished his chemoradiation treatment three weeks ago and is slowly recovering. We won’t know for 2 -3 months if it has worked or not. I’ve gone down with the flu but it’s probably a reaction to all the stress. We keep going and then when the pressure is off it can hit you. My cg has his moments! He always seems to know when I’m at my lowest. I am trying hard not to respond to the addiction. I don’t always succeed with that. I’ve gone back to a lady who helped me get over my horrible ex husband. She does healings where negative beliefs are eradicated and new healthier beliefs put in. I don’t know how it works but it does. I asked her to help me deal with my son. I want to be able to see his number flash up on my phone and not to go into ‘panic’ mode, to be able to talk to him calmly and with compassion but to stick to my beliefs. On friday he had gone through the ‘normal’ thing for him, get his pay packet and blow it in the bookies, ring mother, tell her a story about how his life is now going to end as he doesn’t have the mortgage money and expects me to bail him out. I didn’t!! An hour later he says he got lucky and its all sorted. I didn’t ask how. He wants me to go back to the UK to take him to the doctors to get help. I told my own doctor this and he said, He needs to take responsibility for his own health. It really struck home!! So I think the biggest change is I am getting help for ME. My cg needs to take responsibility for his actions and face the consequences. I am finally letting him go and I don’t feel guilty anymore.
      How is it going with you B? I hope you are okay too. Take Care. San

    • #1693
      san250
      参加者

      Hi everyone, Since I’ve been working on myself, I’ve become much stronger in dealing with my son. For the last three weeks he has stopped contacting me on a daily basis. I’ve learnt the word ‘No’ and he seems to have accepted that. I’ve had a few ‘I need to talk’ texts and I’ve replied, ‘No, I have no money’. He came back, ‘It’s not about money, why do you always think it’s about money?’ Duh because for the last 8 years that’s all the calls have been about! Anyways, he hasn’t contacted me and I’ve contacted him once a week to have a mother/son chat about life in general and no mention of money. It’s so good to have a normal conversation with him. I’ve accepted that it’s none of my business what he is up to and if he gets into trouble he has to face the consequences. I’ve also accepted if he follows through suicidal thoughts, I really did my best to help him, but cannot be held to ransom with these threats anymore. I still hope one day he will seek the help he needs but right now the most help I can give him, is to look after myself and my sanity. Love to you all xx

    • #1694
      velvet
      モデレーター

      Dear San
      I hope that your health is good and your partner is doing well. It was so good to hear from you again with such a positive post.
      San I am going to take a deep breath and hope that you have ‘known’ me long to enough to know that I am not judging when I say that you have said similar words before.
      My favourite line was “I’ve contacted him once a week to have a mother/son chat about life in general and no mention of money. It’s so good to have a normal conversation with him” – but I feel I would be failing you if I did not stress the importance of not relaxing too comfortably into ‘normal conversation’. Until your son has controlled his addiction, his mind will not allow such undemanding communication to continue for long. I am glad that you are making the calls because you are controlling when they take place, allowing you to ensure you are in a good frame of mind but please keep those barriers up.
      You could do no more for your son than what you have been doing. Your sanity is precious and could not be more-so than when your son turns the corner. I hope your other children are continuing to give you the happiness you deserve.
      Speak soon
      Velvet

    • #1695
      BigSis
      参加者

      Hi San, I just wanted to thank you for talking about your experience with your son so openly on this forum.

      I am the older sister of a CG who has been gambling for about 4 or 5 years. I have enabled him for most of those years by giving him significant amounts of money & lying for him (of course I thought I was helping & protecting him).

      I first read your posts a few months ago when things with my brother got particularly bad & I felt completely hopeless & alone. I came across this website & your post was the first one I read as I immediately could relate to your statement of not wanting to be an enabler.

      It broke my heart to read about your struggles because I could relate to everything you said – you could have easily have been describing my brother. It was actually a bit of a wake up call for me because for the first time I started to see the gambling patterns, the lies, the threats etc. for what they were. After reading your post I found the courage to start saying “no” to my brother. It lasted for a few months but recently he has come back into my life & unfortunately things have gone backwards a bit. Today was a pretty bad day so I thought I’d come back to this forum. Reading your last post has given me some hope & inspiration. I’m glad to hear that things are improving now that you are looking after yourself.

      Thanks again for your courage & strength in sharing the good & the bad. I just wanted you to know that reading your posts helped me.

      Take care of yourself.

    • #1696
      san250
      参加者

      Thank you so much for your kind comments. Ive always been an honest person so my comments have reflected this, good times and not so good times. I am currently continuing to work on self empowerment with forgiveness. While we continue to focus on the cgs, life will continue to keep giving us problems. We cannot fix them, we can only help ourselves, look how long it took me to realise this and be strong enough to do something about it! Ive had to look so deep to find out why i continued to enable him so long. Ive found beliefs in me of: if i dont help him he will reject me and abandon me; i dont trust him to do the right thing; love will conquer all; he will/is bringing shame on the family; i wanted to make up for the horrible childhood he had concerning his father etc etc. Ive been able to accept these now and am learning to self love so i dont need these beliefs in my life. Ive learnt to forgive myself for enabling him and to let him go to take the consequences of his actions. Who am i to control his life like this? Big lessons learnt and i still hope one day he will seek help for himself. Much love to everyone xx

    • #1697
      BigSis
      参加者

      Hi San,

      I recognise all of those negative self-beliefs & it gives me great hope to know that it is possible to overcome them. I haven’t reached that point yet – I still feel all of the guilt, shame & worry you talked about…. but as my mum always used to say: “The journey of 1000 miles begins with one step”. Today I managed to say “no” to my brother for the first time in the last few weeks. I guess that’s something. Now I just have to stick to it & not change my mind as the guilt creeps in & the phone calls start!!

      I agree with you completely about giving CGs our focus & attention. This usually leads to major problems & disappointments in our lives. Earlier this year I got so fed up that I blocked my brother’s phone calls & stopped calling him completely. I didn’t hear from him for about 2 months & funnily enough I stopped worrying about where he was, what he was doing etc. I started focusing on my life & started making plans for MY future for the first time in years. All of a sudden I started to feel happy & hopeful. I stopped panicking every time my phone rang & stopped checking for messages every 5 minutes. Even my friends & work colleagues started to notice a difference in me. I guess that’s all part of that empowerment you are talking about…when you start to love yourself & put yourself first.

      Changing your core beliefs is hard work so well done San! I’ve been trying to do it for most of my life. It’s funny how we can continue to forgive our CG after unspeakable hurt & disappointment but forgiving ourselves is so damn hard.

      I love my brother but as you said…he has to deal with the consequences of his actions & get to a point where he wants to seek help for himself. While I’m enabling him, he never will. I can see that…. now I just have to stop doing it!

      Good luck with your journey to empowerment San…you deserve self-love & happiness. I hope that your son will seek out & accept the help that he needs too.

      Keep strong!

    • #1698
      velvet
      モデレーター

      Hi San
      I would love an update; you are often in my thoughts.
      I was so pleased and relieved to read that you have forgiven yourself – it is strange and sad how long it takes us to do so. Hopefully having forgiven yourself you are now having a more peaceful life – you certainly deserve it.
      I won’t be posting for a couple of weeks but I hope to hear from you.
      V

    • #1699
      san250
      参加者

      Hi Velvet and everyone 🙂
      I love how you pop up in my email whenever I’m having a cg crisis, you must have a crystal ball!!
      Well the inevitable has happened and due to gambling my son’s relationship has spectacularly collapsed and her family flew him out of the country! So now a week later he is back on the island he was on before, penniless and miserable.
      I’ve been working so hard on myself. The only person I am going to change. I have to change to find peace and get rid of co-dependency ways. Being co-dependent means I have a huge need to fix things and control things to keep myself safe and happy, but as we know no one wants to be controlled. I’m currently working on boundaries and realise I’ve had very few! And my need to give away my stuff is due to wanting to be accepted and loved. Now I’ve cleared that belief up I am feeling much stronger and calmer. This bit really hit home … “There maybe times we are called upon to assist but it will seriously impact upon our time, resources or energy levels. It is foolish to give time when we are running out of it ourselves, money when we are struggling financially or effort when we are exhausted or unwell.” and this, “EMPOWERING SOMEONE ELSE TO NOT NEED YOU”.
      So for the last two nights my son has told me he has nothing, no where to stay, no money and no food. It’s very hard but I have not sent him anything. He is resourceful and the things he says do not add up. He only wants me to put money in his bank blah blah blah. How much he has to lose before he wakes up, I do not know.
      I’m off to see my daughter in two weeks for a few days and I can’t wait. I haven’t seen her for a year due to my partner’s cancer treatment. He is now in remission and I can leave him on his own. It’s been a hard year but I hope on the up now. My other son is in South Asia studying and I’m going to see him next year :).
      I hope everyone else is okay and not letting the cg ruin their lives. Take care everyone. San xx

    • #1700
      monique
      参加者

      It’s good to hear from you, San. Like all of us, you continue to learn – it doesn’t matter if some things seem to take a long time to sink in, as long as we are going in the right direction. Things that became ingrained in our minds and hearts in the past do not shift quickly.
      I’m glad to hear that your partner is now in remission – long may this last.
      I hope you will enjoy seeing your daughter and, next year, your other son. And always willing your cg to find his recovery.
      Best wishes,
      Monique

    • #1701
      velvet
      モデレーター

      Dear San
      It must be time for an update; you had a lot going on in your last post,
      Hope to hear
      V

    • #1702
      san250
      参加者

      Hi Velvet and everyone

      So here’s an update … I continue to work on myself and I am indeed not the person I was even a couple of months ago. I’ve worked very hard on clearing beliefs in me that had a negative effect on myself and my life. I’ve realised I had NO boundaries and especially the cg could twist me round his little finger with no problem at all. I’ve taken my focus off him, it’s no longer my business what he does with his life, it’s his life. He is an adult not a five year old. I will no longer tolerate his games. He told me recently he tried to kill himself and supposedly called me from a hospital with a croaky voice.
      I think the biggest thing that has happened is I have let him go, and I have finally forgiven myself for not taking my children out of my toxic marriage. My enabling was a form of conditional love (buying his love for feeling guilty for his childhood) and trying to fix everything to protect him from life. Everyone is responsible for their own healing. I accept my part in his upbringing and I’ve shown him where he can get help but until he has reached a point in his life that really hurts, only he can do something about it.
      I’ve also cleared out negative beliefs in relation to overeating, these go back to childhood and feelings of being abandoned, rejected and conditional love. I am no longer an emotional eater and I have no desire at all to eat unhealthy food or in excess. I have lost 6 kg since August without even trying.
      I truly believe for some cgs the desire to gamble is in relation to negative beliefs running in their body and stem from childhood wounds. They would rather gamble than face their true feelings and when they lose and mess up their lives they face even more pain and sink deeper into it. If they could find the courage to become conscious and face those fears and work hard in recovery they stand a chance.
      There are 3 levels of consciousness:
      1. I don’t know what I’m doing and I don’t know why I’m doing it.

      2. I know what I’m doing but I don’t know why I’m doing it.

      3. I know what I’m do and I am deeply interested in understanding ‘why’ I do it.” –
      When people want to know why they do something, they ‘wake up’ and recovery can start.
      I love the work you do here. It helped me so much in my journey and I will be always grateful for the support and guidance you all offered. Much love San xx

    • #1703
      vera
      参加者

      Brilliant post, San.
      I can relate (as a CG) to using gambling instead of facing Life’s “issues”.
      I can also see how I shielded my (wayward but non CG son) by “buying him over”, to make up for mistakes I made in his childhood.
      And by golly , does he know how to remind me of my shortcomings!
      Life is delightful , when we wake up!

    • #1704
      velvet
      モデレーター

      Dear San
      I haven’t heard from you in a while and I am sorry that I didn’t reply to you as I should have done.
      Forgiving yourself was long overdue and I hope that now you have done so, you are more relaxed with ‘you’ and therefore more able to keep your son’s addiction separate from you. I would argue that your enabling was never a form of conditional love to cover your feelings of guilt – I believe that it was in line with you being a mum and wanting the best for a child who obviously struggled more than his siblings.
      I am sure that you are right that many CGs gamble to compensate childhood wounds, real or imagined but a mother can only do her best and I know you did this. When you son changes his life he will know this too but I’m afraid that knowledge is still eluding him.
      It seems to me that your son wavers between ‘I know what I’m doing but I don’t know why I’m doing it’ and ‘I don’t know what I’m doing and I don’t know why I’m doing it’. I am hoping that maybe he is getting closer to acceptance that he has an addiction but that he really can do something about it.
      I hope that you are your partner are experiencing better health and that 2016 will be a good year for you both.
      I would love an update
      V

    • #1705
      san250
      参加者

      wishing you all a wonderful 2016 x

      I’m good, in a good place mentally. My physical health has taken a little bump but I’m looking to recover quickly and get on with life. Since forgiving myself I’ve made strides with my relationships with my adult children (notice the word adult! smiles). I’ve backed off big time and the space has allowed them to take responsibility for their own lives and decisions. And it’s allowed me to have quality time and head space with my partner. We are looking to getting a dog and are very excited about welcoming a new life into our home and hearts.

      My cg son still asks for financial help, sometimes I help him, sometimes I don’t. He has moved on from some dodgy ‘mates’ and appears much calmer in his skin. We’ve had a couple of heart to hearts and I firmly believe deep down he has a very good handle on his decisions. He always asks how I am now and what I’ve been up to before anything else and tells me he loves me.

      Many of the coping strategies I learnt here I still use and remember. The F and F cycle and the fact he will always find somewhere to stay and something to eat and is indeed a survival pro! And when ‘under’ the addiction he will tell any story to get money … ooo we’ve had some really good ones! but I’m now seeing through them more and not responding to immediate requests … give him a ‘No’ and see what happens.

      Life is really too short and so spreading the love has become my latest mission :). And on that note, love to you all.

      San xx

    • #1706
      monique
      参加者

      That’s a good update to read, San. I wish you and your partner a Good New Year.
      Monique

    • #1707
      velvet
      モデレーター

      Dear San
      Your latest post was refreshing – you have made great strides and taken decisions and they all seem to be carrying you forward.
      I admired your statement which brooked no argument ‘sometimes I help him, sometimes I don’t’. It is something I would normally jump on (as you know) but I believe that’ ‘you’ know what you are doing and with your health and the health of your partner it is important that you do what is right for you.
      I am sorry that your health had taken a little bump and I hope the bump is now a thing of the past.
      You are very special to this forum San and I await, with you, the day your son decides enough is enough as I am sure he will.
      Did you get a St Bernard for when you go for a walk? A new friend in the home is lovely; the only problem is your heart is lost in the twinkling of an eye. Remember all you have learned on this site when dealing with this little mite – they know all the tricks of how to manipulate a simply human being without even trying.
      Speak soon
      V

    • #1708
      velvet
      モデレーター

      Dear San
      This is a wondering post – a reminder if you are still reading, that you are cared about.
      I suspect we won’t hear because I think you no longer need support, you were flying free last time we heard and doing great.
      I just wanted to say ‘hi’
      V

168件の返信スレッドを表示中
  • このトピックに返信するにはログインが必要です。