[DanielL]

Today I signed up to this site, because after three years of chaos, I finally realized what was going on.

 

I have been fairly successful in life. By the time I was 33 years old, I had accumulated over $400,000 in savings. I had always been a prudent, disciplined investor, with a portfolio of rental homes and smart investments, as well as a great job.

 

In early 2015, I discovered the power of leveraged options in a video online. Curious, I put $50,000 in a trading account and started selling covered calls on carefully selected stocks. This is actually a pretty conservative option strategy, and I made 9% in just one month, which is a staggering return.

 

After three straight months of this, I decided I was a genius, and looked for ways to learn MORE about options. My broker allowed me to leverage my trades by 500%. Once I got access to this leverage, something else took over that I never felt before. I can only describe it as “The Craving.”

 

From there, things took a bad turn. I stopped being patient. I stopped following a plan. Suddenly I had all this leverage, and clearly I was a genius, right? I just jumped into every trade I could find, impulsively, without thinking. Anytime The Craving turned up, I just took the plunge.

 

I started losing some money, but was certain that my only problem was that I wasn’t “investing” enough money. So I sold ALL OF MY RENTAL PROPERTIES right away to trade options. My whole life savings, my life’s work, all thrown onto the table. Does this sound crazy? Not at all. I was a genius, remember? And The Craving replaced any sort of clear thinking or planning.

 

What followed was 2 and a half years of insanity. As the losses mounted, I moved onto the futures market for more leverage. For a while, I actually recovered my losses and got back to breakeven. At that point, I said to myself: “I HAVE IT NOW. I figured it out. Now I can retire and do this for a living.”

 

So I quit my job and did this full time. through this all I obsessed over the market, neglected relationships, didn’t exercise, and lived off of debt so that I wouldn’t have to take money out of my trading account.

 

Looking back on this now, the outcome was inevitable. But I was totally blind to it. Three years after I started, I blew out and my $400,000 in savings was demolished down to $20,000.

 

Suddenly I started looking online for other people who went through this, and realized what had happened. I have a problem, just like my dad and my grandfather. Both were compulsive gamblers. I have never gambled a dollar in my life at a casino, in sports, in anything, because I didn’t want to end up like my dad and grandfather. Yet I went three years trading hopeless financial products thinking I had a business.

 

This is how Gambling Addiction works. You don’t realize you’re under its spell. Despite my history of conservative investing, despite my efforts to avoid casinos or sports betting because I KNEW I’d get hooked like my family did… DESPITE ALL OF THAT, my addiction found a way to get me. For three whole years. Without me being aware.

Now, here I am. At 36 years old, I lost 95% of my life savings. A promising career now in jeopardy. My morale, in ruins. All I can think about is how to get my money back. It’s an obsession. I don’t know how I can go on like this. The life I had imagined is now just a distant dream. I contemplate suicide daily.

I’m not sure how I’m going to make it, but for now I’m just taking it one day at a time.

I don’t know what to do, to be honest.

-Daniel

[DanielL]

Thank you so much for your encouragement. I am open to any and all words from everyone here. The worst part about all this is that I feel I cannot trust myself anymore.

[DanielL]

The worst part about all this, is that I can’t stop thinking of getting my money back. I know the money is gone, and I need to make new money the proper way. But still, every few minutes, waves of anxiety pour in, telling me that I MUST get that money back NOW, or my life is over. It doesn’t make sense, but it keeps going and going. Will it ever stop?

[i-did-it]

Daniel
For me I think the big secret to stopping is letting the money go.
It is lost and gone and with your abilities in business you can make it back again . Just because you have gained a gambling addiction doesn’t mean you have lost your other talents .

It is really hard to stop and even though I have been trying for years it is only now I am having real success and I have to be honest and say that is mostly due to the barriers I have put in place like gambling blockers on my phone and internet devices- I still want to gamble a lot of the time but I can’t. Willpower is not my strongest point !

People who have been gamble free a long time say the urges lessen and they definitely have for me – but they are still there.

I really don’t know if you can block trading sites but if you Google gambling blockers you will get throw information. I use betfilter .

Like you Daniel, gambling is generational in my family – I guess we are lacking something in our brains – I had some success with a supplement called NAC but in the end it made me feel ill a lot of the time – you could Google that also perhaps .

You can recover from this and have a great life – if you want to win back you can still do it tomroro , next week or next month- try stopping for now !

I hope this helps Daniel- by the time we realise that we are stuck in the cycle of compulsive gambling we have already done so much damage – but it is very positive that you have realised this and it is very admirable that you are reaching out straight away to get help .

You can beat this Daniel and you can build up your funds again.

Can I recommend that you attend some of the support groups tomorrow night (Monday ) with Charles – you will get good advice there .

Well done for joining GT

[匿名]

I’m sorry to read of your predicament. And whereas I can completely understand that all you can think of is how you to get your money back, that just is not going to happen.

Unfortunately its not your money now. One of the hardest things when coming to terms with any addiction, I think, is learning to accept. And until you accept that money has gone you will probably struggle to move on.

You may get some benefit from attending your local GA.

Some people don’t view investing as gambling, as your post points out it most certainly is. Even the smartest investors with the safest options in carefully selected diverse portfolios can go wrong. But no need to tell you that, you were a genius.

I think that is a thought many CG’s have when things are going well and they’re on a winning streak.

It dosn’t sound as if you’re destitute Daniel, if you have any doubts that you will end up gambling/investing what you have left it might be prudent to ask a close family member to help manage your finances for the time being.

I would like to suggest you use the helpline which can be found on this site for a private one to one conversation with someone who will be able to offer you more specific and direct guidance.

I do wish you well. And well done for posting I know how difficult it can be.

Rest assured, that although you may not be the genius you thought you were you are far from unique in what you have done.

You sound like you do have a smart head on your shoulders, well at least you did up til 3 years ago.

I presume you are in the USA, the land of opportunity.

You can recover from this but you must accept that money has gone, and that aint easy.

I wish you well, take care.

[DanielL]

Thank you for the compliment Sara. I’ve always been told I was intelligent, but smarts and talent crumble in the face of low discipline. I feel like I have lost all my discipline, willpower, and focus. All I can think about is getting my money back, literally. Of turning back time. And having abandoned my job before, I will probably have to settle for a lower-income job for a while before I regain the trust of people in my field. And I basically pushed my girlfriend away, because I felt she was distracting me from trading (gambling).

I’m just so ashamed of myself right now. Everything was going pretty well, and then out of nowhere this happens and now I’m back to square one. It makes me wonder if I should even try. If I get on my feet again and something like this happens again, what’s the point?

I used to be so mad at my father for gambling away the family’s savings repeatedly over 30 years. Now I’m terrified I’m next in line, and there will be no escape. It makes me want to just do the bare minimum to get by in life, or just check out entirely. These are strange thoughts, but I can’t seem to control what goes through my mind anymore. I was always known for my ironclad self-discipline.

This really is a disease we’re talking about.

[DanielL]

Thank you Sara. I will try to join the support group tonight if it lets me get in.

I’ve already reached out to my closest friends and family and confessed the disaster I’ve put myself in, so that there is no more pretending. They understand, and aren’t really surprised. I wasn’t fooling anyone the past three years, it turns out. Everyone could see it but me.

8 years of career and financial progress, all thrown away over something so ridiculous. I don’t drink alcohol or do drugs, I lead a healthy lifestyle, and I’ve never even set foot inside a casino (to avoid what I knew would be temptation). I’ve only bet once on a card game, and lost $200 going all-in right away, and never did it again. Yet I kept up this craziness in the markets for three years without pausing and asking if this made sense. The markets make it easy to make our gambling look respectable. Sometimes I wonder if we’re really in control of our own destiny after all, when a person can do something so out of character.

I hate myself so much. All I can do is walk around my apartment wishing I could make a 30 second phone call to myself back in 2015.

[i-did-it]

Hi Daniel ,
Please don’t hate yourself .
To err is to human .
Try to focus on putting barriers in place so you cannot trade (you will get lots of advice in the group ) and on earning that money back .
Let this shock inspire you to move forward positively with your life .

[charles]

Hello and thanks for starting a thread in the Gambling Therapy forums

Here at Gambling Therapy we pride ourselves on being a caring and diverse online community who can help and support you with the difficulties you’re currently facing. We understand that this might be a tough time for you, particularly if you’re new to recovery, so come here as often as you need to and participate in the forums, access online groups and connect to the live advice helpline if you need one to one support. We’re in this together!

Here on the forum you can share your experiences in a safe, supportive and accepting environment. The beauty of writing it all down is that you can take your time and you will be creating a record of your progress that you can look back on if it ever feels like you’re not moving forward. So, share as much or as little as you like but do try to stick to keeping just one thread in this forum so people know where to find you if they want to be updated on your progress or share something with you.

As well as the forums New Members are invited to join Charles in the New Members Practical Advice Group On Mondays at 21:00 (UK) and Thursday at 19:00(UK)

And on that note….

I’m going to hand you over to our community because I’m sure they will have some words of wisdom for you 🙂

Take care

The Gambling Therapy Team

PS: Let me just remind you to take a look at our privacy policy and terms and conditions so you know how it all works!

[charles]

Hi Daniel, well doen on recognizing the problem.

You have already got some great advice. It is a gambling addiction; your addiction found it’s “drug of choice” in the markets.

You can get passed this in the same way that any otehr gamblign addict can – by using support. Keep reading and posting here. Look at the other support you have available, places like Gamblers Anonymous etc.

Keep posting and let us know the positive steps that you are taking.

[DanielL]

Thanks for checking up. I’m not foing so well. I wanted to trade today and I didn’t. If I had made the trade I wanted to make, I would have made thousands today. People are noticing my lack of focus and gloomy outlook at work. I went on a pornography binge to fuel my need for stimulation, which I don’t often do. I feel like things are just crumbling, and the person I used to be is gone. All I want is action now. I’m addicted to stimulation and excitement now, it seems.

Not sure how I’m going to deal with this. I guess I need to lower my expectations in life dramatically, and get some exercise to burn off all this anxiety.

[DanielL]

Thanks! I’m glad I didn’t trade today, but a big part of me feels like an idiot for not trading, since today was a clean opportunity for easy profit… the type the investor in me loves. That’s part of the problem with this addiction. There are trades that a smart investor with a long-term outlook can make, and today was one of them. However, there’s no telling what would happen next after the successful trade. That’s the worst part: I’m really good at this, and could do it professionally, but when I do really well something else takes over and I lose my mind. If it was straight-up casino or sports gambling, I’d have no trouble walking away. But this is different – the markets can be a source of immense, legitimate wealth as well. Of all the types of gambling I could fall prey to, why did it have to be this? Why not something useless like cards or roulette, which I could cut off and forget with no second thoughts? Fate is a cruel mistress…

I think I need to focus on getting exercise and accomplishing things at work. I plan to paper trade for a couple of years – that’s trading with no money on the line, just for practice. I have no compulsive gambling problems with that at all… without the high stakes, trading becomes a pretty mundane business, and maybe I can condition the bad mindset away, with the help of prayer.

If I can master this demon and restore my life, that will become a major accomplishment. The alternative leads to a dark place, so my path is clear.

All I know is that investing and finance are a huge passion of mine, and there is no way I am giving them up for life. I will find a way to strip the gambling mentality away from it, and go back to being the careful, patient, successful investor I used to be, and not turn the markets into a casino. I hope it’s possible.

[DanielL]

Thank you Sara, you’ve been a big help. I know I’m hard on myself, and losing my accumulated life savings plus damaging my career so badly, hurts a lot. It’s hard to find a way back when we’re comparing ourselves to where we used to be.

If you don’t mind me asking, what do you do now at 61? You mentioned that you have nothing. That sounds really hard. How do you plan to go on?

[DanielL]

Thank you for sharing that, Sara. It really helps. And I have the same mindset. Even when I was wealthy and successful (I suppose I still could be again), I was super frugal, living a low-key life. I don’t even drive a car. Bus is fine by me, even with a 6-figure income (I grew up in Europe, mass transit is considered normal there).

I’m glad you’re managing well. Is your retirement income from a pension? Really, all we need to be rich is our freedom. Freedom from want, freedom from our worst inner selves. We really don’t need much to live a nice life! It’s all about expectations and mindset. That second part takes a lot of effort to get right.

[finding_laura]

Hi Daniel, welcome to the forum. I’m so glad you had Sara and others here to support you. Most compulsive or addicted gamblers can’t stop until they hit rock bottom and have nothing left. They cannot stop themselves even when they know they have a problem. It is the hard slam of bottom that makes them realize what they truly have been dealing with. If by some miracle you managed to save a little give it to a trusted family member to keep for you. You are right, we can’t trust ourselves. It’s unfortunate but true. It is not the money, winnings or in the case of stocks, earnings or profits that we are addicted to. It is the thrill or rush of the bet or the “investment” that you are addicted to. The rush of watching your stock rise and calculating your winnings to be “reinvested” in your mind. You continue to make the “investments” regardless of actual outcome. I played slot machinces. Ya I know, the house always wins! Especially if you continue to play. In my case I used cash to play. For a long time after my crash. When all I had left was a badly mortgaged house and and old car, I could not handle cash! I could not trust myself with my source! In your case it is probably stock trading accounts. Can you close them all? Get rid of them. You will not trust yourself again with stocks for maybe never. That doesn’t mean that you can’t have a good life. A great life. It hurts big time where you are now. But to steal the advice of another member here, Kin, it is time to stop the digging. Take the shovel out of your hand and stop digging the hole deeper. Addictions counseling was immensely helpful for me. Seeing a counselor that specialized in gambling and also attending GA meetings were immensely helpful. I realized I was fighting for my life. So glad you joined. Information is a great tool.
take care,
Laura

[i-did-it]

Daniel
I have been on this site for the best part of a decade and I am following your thread .
I really don’t understand trading and I feel the fact you have ever made money trading shows that you are every clever .

I would like to tell you if something I have learned – the hardest way – it is almost universal that when we become addicted to gambling we will never be able to gamble normally again. It is a horrible truth to accept especially as we all love gambling so much .
I think it may be the same for trading – you may never be able to trade “normally” again – sure we manage for a little while but then the “beast ” take over.

I understand that you didn’t gain your previous wealth through trading – so perhaps this would be a better way to regain your wealth.

I appreciate I May be totally off the mark here – and I hope you find my comments constructive as they are intended to be. I often found it annoying when people kept repeating what I already knew so take what works for you and ignore the rest .
.
You can have a great life Daniel – you are working hard at this – posting diligently. Onwards and upwards !

[DanielL]

Thanks for all the support. I actually made half of all my previous wealth through investing. In real estate, in commodities. I never had a problem at all until I got into the world of leveraged options. I’ve always been a patient, disciplined investor. When you have leverage, though, you can trade 10 times, or even 20 times your money and experience enormous gains. Or massive losses. I think it’s the massive leverage that awakened the monster within me. Good trades suddenly became thrilling. Bad trades felt terrible, but the awful feeling of losing so much also is very stimulating, and you get used to the ups and downs. Normal life becomes boring.

With investing, you don’t have to time anything perfectly. You just need to be patient and know what you’re doing. When you trade with leverage, you’re either right or you’re wrong NOW. It’s fast. A lot of money can change hands quickly. Just thinking about it gives me a buzz. That’s just terribly dangerous.

So I plan to take a break from trading, maybe for a year or two, and just trade a paper account – that’s an account without actual money. The trades are simulated, so you can practice at no risk. My goal is to find a way to trade and invest again that doesn’t trigger The Craving. I need to find a balance, because finance is a passion for me. I can’t imagine a life without it. I’ve been investing since I was 11 years old.

If I can cut out the leverage – the fast money aspect – of trading, and get closer to the type of investing I used to do, which is slow and business-like, then I think I’ll be fine. But I need to try it on a paper account first, to make sure it’s safe. I know I can do it, but it’s so frustrating that I have to rebuild from scratch again.

I still hate myself for having allowed this to happen, but am slowly coming to terms with the loss. I am telling myself the $400,000 is gone. I need to make new money the proper way. I will not chase the loss by doing more of what got me into trouble. That’s really the key.

If I do ever figure out a way to trade without triggering the gambling mentality – The Craving – again, I plan to write a book about it, and a video series on YouTube, because I know for a fact that there are hundreds of thousands of people out there with the same problem. So many people get wiped out trading the markets, even if they know what they’re doing… simply because of their gambling mindset, which they may not even realize they have.

If I can do it, then I hope I can show the way for others as well. If anything, it gives me purpose and a bigger reason to get past this and grow beyond it.

[i-did-it]

Great post Daniel
I could not bear to think of never gambling again – I just love it too much – it is my very favourite activity .

So I just try not to gamble “for today ”

Maybe this would work with trading too ?

[Johnny B]

I think I can relate to your issue.  My first venture into gambling was greyhound racing.  I lived 2 miles from the track and I was able to go on Thursday afternoon, Friday evening, Saturday afternoon, Saturday evening, and Sunday afternoon.  I didn’t attend all of the performances all of the time, however I went enough to pay attention, and I could recognize styles, and class, and know exactly when I had an advantage.  Parimutual wagering is me against the rest of the public and I truly had the advantage because I saw, and had first hand knowledge of what was happening with previous races.  I made over $30000 profit in my first two years “playing dogs”.  

The gambling laws expanded in my state, and the tracks began allowing simulcasting.  I could now wager on any of 10 given tracks throughout the country at any given time.  Talk about mental overload.  Guess what, my advantage was no more.  Betting on a Florida track (I was in Wisconsin), I was betting blind.  I no longer had my advantage agains the public.  I started depending on luck, and would throw money at the races just to have the action…if I didn’t bet, I might not win.  I completely lost my discipline.  Long story short, I wound up losing over $70000 in my third year, and wound up over $100,000 in debt with loans and credit advances!  Keep in mind I earned approximately $125000 at this time.  I pissed it all away, and then some chasing some unthought out idea!

I hope you find your way again.  It is a difficult prospect even when you “have an advantage”.

Thanks for your time!

Johnny B

[DanielL]

Thank you so much for your story, Johnny! It helps more than you realize.

And I can relate to your situation. I had an advantage trading too, but the market is a fluid thing. The ground can shift beneath your feet, and suddenly your advantage can disappear. With the gambling mentality, though, it can be difficult to adapt, since we’re not treating it like a business. All we can see is the thrill, and not missing out. It’s really a terrible thing, since we can’t see it while it’s happening. That’s the worst part.

Are you okay now? Did you make it back and cover your debt? How are you avoiding the racetrack? Did you move away?

[lizbeth4]

Hi Daniel, I don’t know much about trading either. Gambling comes in many forms. For myself it has been slot machines. Although I’ve betted on the greyhounds and horses. I agree that it is for the thrill of the win but at some point even the win wasn’t enough. I think it involves working on one’s self. I’ve had some gamble free time here and there and have managed to have slips in between. I have been fortunate to still have my home. I am paying off a lot of credit card debt. But I’m not giving up! One day at a time. You can do it Daniel!

[Dunc]

Hi Daniel Im so please your enraging with the community. To the best of my knowledge the only company producing software that blocks trading sites in Gamblock. Ill link you to it http://www.gamblock.com/product/features/stock-trading.html Kind regards Harry

[DanielL]

Today I wanted to trade badly. Several times. The urges were strong. I was counting the money I could make if I traded, and how much I’d get back, and how long it would take to get everything back if I did that every day.

It took an enormous amount of restraint as I watched the market prices tick by every second for hours. But I made it through the day without placing a trade.

But the only reason I made it through today without trading (gambling) is because I kept telling myself: “if we just have patience and wait a few more days, we can invest at a great price, and hold the investment for months.”

I guess that’s better than short term, fast-money trading (gambling). But it means that I’m still fixated on the idea of being in the market, to make money from the market.

I don’t know what to make of this. At the same time, I know that if I wait I will get a great opportunity to invest for the rest of the year and just let the money sit and grow. On the other hand, what will happen once I start making big money on that investment? Will I go crazy with greed and try to speed things up, taking big risks?

Not sure how to deal with this. Time will tell. It’s really hard when the gambling addiction is mixed in with good, smart, patient investing. My goal is to separate the two once more.

[finding_laura]

hey Daniel. I think part of the issue is that you are watching the markets. So your body is looking for that high it normally gets when watching the markets and placing bets, i mean investments. Paper trading or watching the markets and dry gambling or dry running the values your investments would gain can trigger major urges to continue with the behaviour that made you lose it all. It’s a big old addiction unfortunately. Not every one who gambles becomes addicted. But once they do i’ve not heard of anyone making it back to being a responsible gambler. But really all you have to worry about is today. I would stop watching the stocks. For now anyway. Much as a sport better usually has to stop watching sports. Or a slot gambler can’t play online slots for fun and horse betters have to stop checking the daily racing form etc. Old habits have to be replaced by new habits. This sounds tough. And some times people can add certain elements back in. Like maybe the sports better could go watch a match. But in most cases its best to avoid practicing portions of the addiction. Some food for thought. Hope you aren’t beating yourself up so bad. You didn’t choose to have this addiction. It snuck up and bit you. But now you see it for what it is. I wish you all the best in fighting this. And make no doubt, that is what you are in I believe. A fight. This can take over your life for the rest of your life. Take good care. Laura

[brucey]

Hi Daniel. Thank you for sharing. I have read all of your posts in this thread and I must say what struck me instantly was how incredibly similar your story sounded to the hundreds of other compulsive gamblers’ stories.

The stock market is a form of gambling, just like sports betting and the casino are forms of gambling. Skilled and knowledgeable market traders are able to make good money consistently from it from finding value, just as skilled sports bettors can. There are low risk ‘guaranteed’ market investments for traders with enough patience, just as there is low risk (not no-risk!) matched-betting for sports gamblers. I know of initially controlled matched bettors making a few grand a year who rapidly turned into compulsive gamblers, losing it all and more, much like your situation. In fact people wanting to start matched betting are regularly warned that they are accepting there is a risk of developing an addiction. The losses and potential for addiction are the same. Replace a few words, and the entire story is identical to what many of us have experienced.

The most common question by far asked by compulsive casino/slot gamblers early in their recovery is whether they can continue with their weekly fiver on a football accumulator which they always enjoyed and never had a problem with. Or if they can continue buying a weekly lottery ticket. The answer is always no. Keeping the ‘gambling mind’ active holds the door open to relapse – either a huge relapse with the initial high risk activity, or the low risk activity becomes compulsive in itself (like buying hundreds of lottery tickets a week). A very small number of people can continue the low risk activity without any problems, but this is a very small number, and you don’t know if you are one of them until you try it, but more likely than not, suffer a massive relapse. Why take the risk?

Lots of compulsive sports gamblers early in recovery continue to check odds on games, horses etc. ‘Fake betting’ – writing down what teams they would have backed to try and feel better if the picks lost. (Checking the market prices and paper betting in your case). But if those picks win, and especially if they win big – we get angry at ourselves for not having placed a bet on. Because we tell ourselves if we did we could make back ‘our’ money what we have lost. We then want to chase the ‘lost potential winnings’. FOMO – the fear of missing out. This is one of the worst things to do regarding triggering gambling urges.

Make no mistake, trading is just another type of gambling. There are low-risk and high-risk versions of trading, as there are with other types of gambling.
Crucially, and you might not like to hear this – but once we have crossed the line into compulsive gambling, the brain itself has changed, and we can never go back to normal low-risk gambling like everyone else. We all like to think we can overcome this with willpower, all of us have tried. We can’t.

I suggest you follow the same initial steps as other compulsive gamblers. I and many others have found that installing a blocker is one of the best methods of controlling urges, and will save a fortune in the long run. Looks like one (Gamblock) has been linked above. If you do nothing else, do this. Please stop checking market prices – the urges are much easier to control if you don’t. Also don’t try to ‘test yourself’ – many have tried and the results are disastrous.

I’m sorry if some of these things are tough to hear. But I hope you can keep it in mind. The first days are the hardest. You are intelligent enough to make a very decent wage off a good job. The potential winnings, when worked out compared to your yearly wage, are not worth risking your lifelong mental health for.

[DanielL]

You’re totally right. Watching the markets during the day does create urges. Watching the prices of stocks, oil, gas, Treasury Bonds, Wheat, Corn… It’s mesmerizing. I should not be watching the markets during the day at all unless I get a pre-planned alert. Watching the markets when they’re CLOSED is a whole different game. Everything is quiet and still, and it’s easy to be detached.

I just need to find a way to go back to investing normally without being hounded by feelings that I need to trade RIGHT NOW or miss out on getting some of my money back. It will take a lot of discipline, but I know I can do it and get back to normal.

I moved to a standing desk at work so I can walk around and burn off energy anytime an urge arises. It does help a bit. Little by little I’ll regain control of my life, as the memory of the loss fades into the distance and good habits have returned. I have to be optimistic.

[brucey]

Also – you may be having thoughts of winning back ‘your’ money that you have lost. It is no longer yours. You have spent it on the ‘gambling experience’. Sounds simple, but it takes many of us a long time to realise this.

[DanielL]

You’re right. I have done well in my paper trading so far in just three days. And they are pretty conservative trades too. The market is offering immense opportunities this week.

I felt that feeling you described: If only this was real money, I could have made 8% of my loss back in just 3 days. I felt the urges and I let them go immediately. Practicing mindfulness and being aware of what’s going on helps a lot.

I’m not ready to give up on investing completely. It’s been a part of my life since I was 11. I never had any issues until I turned 33. I can’t imagine a life without the markets, despite the pain they have put me through. I will try to make it work, without placing real money at risk, and if I can make it through a couple of years without a problem, I’ll try again gently. In the meantime I will build bring back positive habits, such as exercising daily, and being patient. To me, this is the ultimate challenge, and I can’t go through life wondering “what if I’d tried to overcome this carefully and patiently.”

I know it sounds like I won’t let go. I can let go of the loss over time. But I will never let go of investing and the markets. I can’t imagine a life without them. It would be akin to becoming a monk and living in a monastery for all time. Maybe I just need time to distance myself from the loss and gain perspective.

It’s not easy.

[brucey]

I understand it takes time to process. It is hard to give up something that’s been part of your life for so long. Many compulsive gamblers have gambled sensibly for years before THE big win (or the 9% return in a month in your case). It’s always the big win that gets us hooked, and unfortunately there is no way back from there. It’s amazing how “easy” it feels when you’re winning.

The biggest misconception people have about gambling addiction is that it is about money. It isn’t. This is a disease that affects the brain, with loss of money being a side effect. Money can affect the progression of the disease; big wins are the worst thing that can happen to a prospective gambling addict. Ultimately this is a disease of decreased ability to regulate your own actions and all of that occurs in the brain.

[DanielL]

I traded today after 4 days of abstaining. There was a safe trade to take, and I took it live with real money. I made $2,600 this morning on that trade and closed it.

I did NOT feel any type of buzz when I made the trade. It felt purely rational, a small trade using a strategy I had planned last night while the market was closed. I feel no urge to take another trade.

I’m a bit disappointed that I took the trade live, but also pleased that there is no compulsiveness, cravings, or greed surrounding it. I just feel serene and detached. No urge to repeat this trade a hundred times. It’s come and gone.

The key is the mindset. I let go of the loss, or at least I’m trying to. I’m not trying to “make it back” (at least not right now). The trade was planned calmly while the market was closed, and I just executed my plan using a small amount of money.

Am I falling back into gambling, or is this a sign that I can return to normal, at some point, if I stay detached and avoid greed?

It will take a long time to figure all of this out.

Life would have been so simple if I had just stayed in the Navy. That’s my regret for the day.

[DanielL]

Hi Sara,

I always feel good seeing your posts. You have no idea how great it feels.

Those are all good questions.

Yes, I would have made this trade before, during my addictive spree. But I also said no to 30 other trades I would have made. This one required a lot of patience to wait for. It’s the type of trade that, if it was the only thing I did, I would be just fine for the rest of my life. But it’s never that easy. You have to wait for these, often for weeks. Who has the patience for that, when the addiction demands constant action? That’s the challenge. Waiting for the safe opportunities to come around.

Yes there was leverage in this trade, but much less than usual. You don’t need leverage when you wait for safe opportunities. That’s the thing. You only need leverage to “force” big profits out of small opportunities. The addiction forced me to take unsafe trades and try to squeeze big money out of them using leverage. That is a recipe for disaster, and something I hope I never do again.

The trade had defined risk. It would have closed automatically if the market proved me wrong, without any decision on my part. It was pre-planned. I didn’t even look at it during market hours, so I could stay detached. Another key, since looking at the market during the day is mesmerizing and brings out cravings to be part of the action. Never make decisions while the market is open! There’s too much emotion and greed involved. Make decisions only when the market is closed, everything is still, and you can stay detached. That’s the lesson for me. Then it goes from gambling to planning a transaction like I would in a business.

You mentioned that’s a lot of money. In fact, it’s nothing compared to what I was “betting” before. I was putting $50,000 or more on the line before, because of leverage. This is a small trade. Hard to believe, isn’t it? That one trade could pay the rent for two months. But in the world I’m in, that’s a small amount of money. You can see how that would make it easy to fall prey to greed.

Maybe I am fooling myself. I don’t think so, though. I always feel The Craving when I’m taking wild impulsive trades (gambles). There was none of that this time. It was a pretty boring transaction, based on patience and careful planning.

I’ll probably avoid trading again unless a safe opportunity appears, and even then I will make sure I’m not feeling that Craving. I think most people will know what I mean: that surge of energy from the chest that spreads outward into the head, and makes us impatient & impulsive, but at the same time also makes us feel “alive.” When a trade is boring, it’s just business as usual. No craving. I need to stay with boring. If I ever start having fun thrills while trading, I’ll need to stop because that’s when it will get out of control.

For now I’m only risking small amounts, so if I lose my mind again the damage will be limited. The rest of my money is in a safe account that I cannot touch (it’s restricted for 2 years).

It’s risky to go through with this, but I have to try. I can let go of my loss – money is replaceable. But I can never, ever let go of the markets, finance, and investing. I will try and see what happens, limiting the risk. If I’m wrong and going down a wrong path, please speak out, because I really value everyone’s opinion here.

Daniel

[DanielL]

It’s a bit like a doctor becoming addicted to the medications he prescribes. He treats illness and prescribes medication for a living, but also deals with an addiction to the medication that is part of his/her job.

That’s a bit what this is like.

Does the doctor just stop practicing medicine and find another career? Or does he try to find a way to cope and keep doing his job?

[DanielL]

That is a good point Sara, thank you. I will not bring up dollar amounts or percentages in any posts in the future. This recovery will take 2 to 5 years, depending on how much discipline I bring to it. I just need to be patient.

Fortunately, I prefer to live a simple life, so my cost of living is pretty low. I figure if I save half of my income, I can catch up and get back to a respectable net worth in that timeframe. If I can accomplish that, life will become much less stressful. But nothing worth having is ever free.

This will be the toughest journey of my life. It’s worth fighting for.

[Johnny B]

To answer your questions:

I filed bankruptcy to control the debt…I had a solid income after I had filed, however I kept gambling.  I was not able to tuck anything away because I kept playing.  Ultimately I got married, and kept gambling.  Almost lost my wife of less than two years over my “habit”.  I was fortunate, with the help of marriage counseling, I finally realized maybe I was wrong and needed to step up.  I am currently approximately 5 months gamble free.  Which is a huge amount of time considering I have played and lost for over 30 years.  I don’t have alot of money, but since I haven’t been pissing it away, I am living a “normal” life.  My most recent debt load was wiped out by cashing in an IRA (basically my lifes savings)…but I am debt free/ and gamble free as of this writing (other than house and car payments).  I hesitate to say it, but life is good.  I am very afraid to open pandoras box anymore.  I loved the rush, the wins were great…the losses have probably taken years off of my life.  Gambling was supposed to be fun.  It stopped being fun a long time ago!

I hope you keep in control.  If you are a trader for a living, unfortunately you are in a trick bag and need all of the self control you can muster!… Be smart, stay diligent.

Best wishes

Johnny B

[DanielL]

Hi Sara, doing ok I guess. Still very sad about this whole situation. Exercise helps to burn off some of the stress. I’m starting to think that unless I get my act together soon, I will never get back to where I was before in life financially. I’m having trouble focusing on my job.

I’m downsizing to a much less expensive apartment, and not going out to restaurants or bars anymore. I know It’s important to stay positive and optimistic, but losing almost a decade of progress like this seems like such a waste.

This could be a long process. I should probably lower my expectations of life in general, to get over the disappointment.

[DanielL]

Today, the markets are crashing. The price of the stock index futures, and the price of oil both reached pre-planned targets, and I traded as planned.

I did not feel any cravings at all, since it was all part of a detached, logical plan. But suddenly, I doubled the size of the trade and I felt The Craving return, roaring back to life. When I realized what happened, I closed that position and bought its size back to normal.

The Craving disappeared. It looks like as long as I don’t use a lot of leverage and trade from a plan, the gambling mentality stays under control. I’ll have to see how it goes, but it felt pretty scary when I impulsively doubled the size of my trade and the cravings roared back to life.

Thank you to everyone so far for your responses!

[charles]

Hi Daniel,

PersonallyI would recommend again the “paper trading” it would be a bit like a horse gambler picking horses without placing a wager; it just teases the addiction.

[DanielL]

Hi Sara, I really enjoy hearing from you. I am managing my addiction following the plan before. Not looking at the market during the day. Only trading from a plan. Not using much leverage. It keeps the cravings away, and turns trading into a pretty ordinary (yet fulfilling) business. It’s all about avoiding the triggers that get me excited.

So far that is working. I’m not having any problems at all, and am back to successfully growing my investing and trading account while focusing on work during the day. The feelings of regret are still there, but I figure that as long as I stay disciplined, I can get back to where I was in 3 years. Life goes on, and now I have a new perspective.

I do need to exercise more, though, and that is the next item on my list, after I move to my new apartment (downsizing, moving closer to work). I’m still scared I’ll fall back into the addiction, but as long as I stay aware and stick to my plan things will probably turn out okay.

[finding_laura]

Hey Daniel, good to see a post from you and that you are getting back to a more normal life. The regrets will be there likely for a long time. But as you say, you now have a new perspective. Maybe this will help you appreciate any newly accumulated wealth in a different way. Maybe you need to build in some type of rewards into your life. I remember when you told your story it reminded me of a volcano under constant pressure that sooner or later will explode. You were so disciplined and didn’t seem to allow yourself much fun or excitement or release. I understand you prefer a simple life but I”m wondering if you are fulfilled? Hope that isn’t too personal a question. Money collected in a bank account is just numbers if it is never used for any purpose.

I really am glad to see you here responding and posting. Quite often in recovery we are challenged to do things differently so that the outcome is different. This community helps us to reflect on these things and you never know when it will come in handy.

Take care,
Laura

[Callmecrazy]

I’m not sure if this may help, but if any of us here had won 400.000 $ in a casino we would have gambled it all back and probably gone crazy along the way. So in a way you’re not alone. Figures are only figures, the money was never ours in the first place. There is nothing more rewarding than an honest wage for an honest’s day work. I’ve come to realize that living comfortable, yet modest is the only way a person can truly live happily. Everything else brings greed, obsession and the urge to want more. If you were to get back your 400.000 $ tomorrow, I guarantee you wouldn’t stop there. You would become further obsessed wanting more. So, I say, ***** your blessings, let it go and start living a happy life. All of us here have the opportunity to do so.

[finding_laura]

Hi Daniel, just wanted to see how you are doing? Let us know how things are going. Hope you are ok.
Laura

[DanielL]

Hi Laura,

Thanks for checking in on me. I’ve been focusing on work and not trading much. I only trade when it makes business sense to do so, since I can’t watch the market during the day without going into a hypnotic daze. It’s too easy for greed to take over, so I keep my distance.

Ironically, taking it slow and easy actually pays off the most. I’ve been treating the market like a business, not a game, and not looking at it during the day. That simple approach just gave me my best month ever in April. By far.

It’s clear that greed is the great enemy. The more we detach ourselves from money, the more easily riches enter into our life and stay there. It’s only when we voraciously obsess over money and “winning” that we lose ourselves to our lesser impulses.

So that’s where I am right now. I’m just working, trying to live a sane life, moving to an apartment closer to work (which is more modest than my uptown high rise apartment), and just living simply.

It’s hard to believe how easy life becomes when we just keep it simple. It’s one of those cruel ironies that many of us discover late in life. I feel lucky to have learned this at 36.

Another lesson: gratitude is the cure for greed. One cannot become consumed by greed when they are grateful for what they already have, or even just for being alive.

Thank you again!

Daniel

[finding_laura]

Hi Daniel, so good to hear from you and that you are doing well. Gratitude in recovery and seeing what was right before us and all the blessings in our lives seems to be the theme running through the posts tonight. You are right. Now is the perfect time to for you to see things in a different light and 36 is young to have learned many of the insights you now have. Some people will live their whole lives not learning these things. Please do give yourself some little rewards along the way. Things that give you pleasure. Simple pleasures even. I look forward to your next update. Have a good weekend Daniel.
Laura

[finding_laura]

Hey Daniel, wondering how things are going for you these days. Are you still here reading? Would love to have an update. Praying your recovery is going well. Take care of yourself.
Laura

[DanielL]

Hi Laura,

Thanks for checking up on me.

My life has stabilized quite a lot since the latest disaster in March, but there’s still a long way to go on the road to recovery.

I continue to trade at low-risk, treating it as a business. Occasionally I get an impulse to take a big risk and gamble on the markets, but since I only look at the markets at night when they’re closed, I’m able to resist most of my impulses. The result has been steady profits rolling in. Nothing huge, but when I treat trading like a business, it rewards me as a business should, with reasonable profits.

It will take a couple of years to get back to where I was before, but my path is set. I’ll emerge from this stronger and more disciplined than ever. It’s not terribly exciting, but it works.

Hope you have been doing well also!

Daniel

[finding_laura]

Sounds like you are doing something right Daniel if your recovery has become boring lol. But seriously though, not everyone’s looks entirely the same. Some would say you are risking a relapse by continuing to trade but it sounds to me like you have found a way to perhaps manoeuvre the mine field that is your business. Keep an eye on how you are feeling. Sometimes we can have mood swings for months and even up to a couple years after we stop. I hope you continue to succeed in recovery. Keep your self safe. You know where you have support if you need it. And it never ever hurts to remember where we’ve been. Thanks for posting! It’s good to know that you are doing ok! Take care, Laura

P.S. I’m doing fine these days.  11 months of gamble free time again.  And 9 years of recovery!

[lonelydad1]

Daniel, the way you described your experience – of feeling like you were a genius and you had it all figured out, etc. – I can relate to that so much. I am 54 with three kids (two teens and a younger one). My father also was a gambler (horse racing, sports and stock futures mostly) and I too swore I wouldn’t be like him. But I have the “gene”, and I got into daytrading about 20 years ago. I found it so fascinating and an exciting challenge to try to learn and master it. Well, long story short, I have lost an estimated $100,000+ and also have been fired from at least one major job likely due to my lack of focus because of daytrading. I also sold a really good rental property because I wanted the cash to daytrade (that property has since gone up in value about $50,000 in just a few years, so add that to my losses). Luckily my wife and I make decent money and we have some savings, but not enough to pay for all kids college and retire, so if only I had all that money and time back that I lost in the stupid exercise of daytrading that got me nowhere and just set me back so much in my life. I recently did another few months binge and lost $20K. I withdrew the money from one of my accounts and I tell myself I won’t do it anymore, but there is so much tempting me out there. The stock investing and daytrading industry is so huge (just think of CNBC) and there is always some news out there about some company to invest in, etc. and it’s so tempting to start again. Anyway, I hope you find a way to stop for good and I hope I do too.

[MurrS7]

Very touching read Daniel. I hope you’re doing ok now. This really stuck with me

Another lesson: gratitude is the cure for greed. One cannot become consumed by greed when they are grateful for what they already have, or even just for being alive.

Thank you for sharing your story
I wish you well

[Ajay B]

Hi Daniel,

I don’t know if you are still following this website. I hope you have completely stopped trading recklessly and have made decent money through your disciplined trading and from your job.

I am a recovering stock market trading addict and just like you I happen to be in the field of finance as well. So its a bit harder to self-isolate myself.

I was trading aggressively and lost a bit of money. I had stopped for a while and was trading with discipline form last few days but had a sudden relapse and lost a bit more money. Luck was on my side and I did not lose much overall. But I could have lost HUGE amount and the regret and guilt is killing me. I also get an urge to trade again to regain the small amount I have lost. But I am trying to control myself.

[Ajay B]

Hi Daniel,

I don’t know if you are still following this website. I hope you have completely stopped trading recklessly and have made decent money through your disciplined trading and from your job.

I am a recovering stock market trading addict and just like you I happen to be in the field of finance as well. So its a bit harder to self-isolate myself.

I was trading aggressively and lost a bit of money. I had stopped for a while and was trading with discipline form last few days but had a sudden relapse and lost a bit more money. Luck was on my side and I did not lose much overall. But I could have lost HUGE amount and the regret and guilt is killing me. I also get an urge to trade again to regain the small amount I have lost. But I am trying to control myself.

[投稿者]

投稿