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    • #2073
      ell
      Participant

      When you marry the two incomes become one…. and all the money we put together for the obligations we decide to have   and for our child if a couple decide to give birth. If we didn’t have the incomes maybe some decisions not be taken   So when he  should keep his salary to pay his debts, this means that  he does not give  money for nothing in the house or for the family debts or for our food clothing doctors etc .  So it’s only words that pay his own debts. Yes he pays for his own debts and I am paying all the rests. So i can not accept deep inside me that I don’t pay for gamble debts too. It is the same thing. The family needs all the tow incomes.
       We decide together how to make the arrangements for the debts and that’s it. .We know for every month what we should pay and we pay it .I have his salary so i give him to pay his debts.
      I cannot do anything else. I cannot let him has all his salary and make the arrangements. His salary is on my bank account I give to him the money for his debts and for his petrol and cigarettes. So maybe is only words that a cg pays for his debts. Maybe a single cg. A married cg no.
       i always hear that is not your debts are his debts let him pay for them alone..  is an illusion. .And of course remind you that our economies go away because he gambled that money too. So he cannot pay for the debts and for the family and for the economies that gone. It is an illusion that a married cg pay his debts alone. He has a second job and that is not enough also.  We need to have a safety for our family if something happens so things are very difficult but with understanding everything will be fixing.  He has 2 jobs  and he is not afraid to be a servant or to clean houses he does everything but the day has 24 hours he cannot do more and i cannot ask for  more . He tries very hard to take the control .Someone told me that when you are married say to yourself that he lost his job and that why you helping now more , but is not true because if someone married loss his job then that’s why we  have our economies to support the 2 or 3 months for find new job .Tell me what will happened if i  have not a job . Im not afraid the work or the finance problems .me and my cg have the strength at least to try .and my hope is to be after this together and more stronger .

      I just write down my though …I was thinking and I wrote it  because i had a conversation with someone . maybe it is opposite of others maybe im wrong  .
      I haven’t introduce myself and sorry for that
      I m Ell 36 years old  and my husband is a cg for 2years . I know it for 1.5 month  and I will be with him with all my hurt  in his recovery . So he is with me for my recovery. We can fix a wrong situation if we truly truly want it .
      My English not very good I hope my words make sense.
       
      — 17/12/2012 15:31:26: post edited by harry.
      — 17/12/2012 4:12:01 µµ: post edited by ell.– 19/12/2012 2:50:43 µµ: post edited by ell.

    • #2074
      ell
      Participant

      dear monique and velvet thank yoy for your post . these days were very  very difficult for me but i think i will handle it at last , yes velvet one of my fealings is grieving for the relationship that i  think i have lost for ever. and is true i lost it for ever . i must find the way for a new relationship with new rules . me life now is my work and my daughter . if somoene see me he will think that i am the happiest person in world because in my job i must do it every day but indeed is a *** . the holidays i was prentending cooking for the family and the parents and soem friends who did nt know my situation and i was pretending everything is good and now it is christmas yioupiiiiiiiiiiii. that was hard for me becouse i dont like to pretend i like to feel ok not pretend that is ok . and when i see him in face i feel that you are the  reason that im not happy ..just you and your options … he loves me  i think but i can not be***ve anything …no trust . if he say so ok he loves me but inside me is always ?????  what if he ***s and in this and in that what if he ***s and you can not see it ???? my economics not good …i try to pay everything on time adn when i feel presure i have the fealing that is your fault that i m here now …i had all the money needed . anyway i know that all will pas i try thank yoy all very much happy new year

    • #2075
      looby loo
      Participant

      Dear Ell
      I wish you a more peaceful life during 2013.  Christmas is hard for many, as you say ‘living a ****, so much pressure to ‘perform and be happy’, but it is YOUR life and if you are unhappy, it is okay to show it sometimes.  Life is not a bed of roses, and anyone who says their life is I believe to be telling fiblets.
      Look after you and your family, it will pass, get assistance with sorting the bills, and if you really cannot pay all of them tell the creditors, and usually they can make a payment plan for you – it is better for them to have a little payment often than to have no payments at all.  Try not to take all the burden upon yourself (and I know that is a tough ask).  Sadly, you will be unable to tell truth from lies from your CG, and trusting what he says will take time, but that has to be when and only when he shows he is in true recovery.
      Stay close to us, as we walk with you, we really DO understand you Ell.
      Sending hugs to you xxEveryone has a destiny, it's up to us whether we choose to follow it though !Looby Loo

    • #2076
      monique
      Participant

      Dear Ell
      I just want to echo all that Looby has written. Also to say Happy New Year and to hope it will get better for you from day to day. But share your sadness and tough ***** and receive support from here and wherever you find it, so that you become stronger and more at peace as the days, weeks and months go by. Every good wish, Monique.

    • #2077
      velvet
      Moderator

       
      Dear Ell
      Grieving hurts but passes.  
      I don’t know if your husband loves you but I do know there is nothing he can do to prove it to you unless you can give him time.
      It is the fault of his addiction that you are where you are – an addiction he didn’t want and didn’t ask for. 
      Trust takes time – a long time but I ‘know’ it can be renewed.
      You are doing so well.  I hope you can soon be as proud of you, as I am.
      V– 08/01/2013 19:08:36: post edited by Velvet.

    • #2078
      ell
      Participant

      the topic closed velvet that is i m writing here now . i need to tell you this :  im  36 years and my life needed from me to act like a man . my family problems and my work problems needed me to "" be "" like a man ..work 2 and 3 jobs since i was 14 years old  untin now . i was child and had 3 heart operations and i did it ….i know i can handle problems like a man i know i can but i dont want it  any more . to my husband i found safety and love  …he was the man and i was the woman for the first time in my life …i NEEDED velvet this so much ….and i believe it to him that i m safe emotional with him ..and he was really very good to all …and when i found out that is a gambler i feel now that i must take the control again ..keep my eyes open ….try to find soloutions for me my dughter try to help him because he want it …. and that is hard for me again  …i know i can  handle it but didnt want to happen …i do need my husband  give  me safety  but is ruined ….
       — 9/1/2013 12:35:07 µµ: post edited by ell.

    • #2079
      velvet
      Moderator

       
      Hi Ell
      I am glad you realised the session ended and I had not closed the door on you.
      I do understand what you mean.   It is a wonderful image that we have that a woman will be ******* up, loved, cherished and protected by a man but it is difficult for a man to be able to live up to this image – especially if he is, through no fault of his own, the owner of a terrible addiction.
      I grew up to be very independent and strong willed.   (This is a part of me looking at myself by the way).   I had a very definite idea of how life should be lived and that honesty played a big part in that life.   I expected in return for the love and trust I gave to be loved and trusted in return.   I had not reckoned on an addiction to gamble, turning my world upside down, making me feel a weak-willed victim.
      However (and this is where I really dig) it is very difficult for a man to ‘look after’ a woman who is strong willed and independent, who bounces back from sadness and problems and gets on with her life.   Not everybody can bounce back and certainly the addiction to gamble is not on elastic, it is not something from which anybody can bounce back.
      I think in the world we live in now, it is far more difficult for the man to be the protector. 
      I don’t hear that all is ruined for you. I do hear that you have had a major set-back but you are strong and you will survive.  
      Compulsive gamblers are emotionally immature Ell and you have always been strong.  You were looking for an emotional maturity that your husband could not give – yet.   To fight the addiction to gamble and to succeed in controlling it takes a tremendous maturity and strength.   Your husband can gain from this struggle and reach a maturity he did not have before. He will be able to protect you as you want but not yet.  
      Of course you did not want this to happen – none of us wanted this to happen in our lives. Why is happens is unknown.   You have stood up to many challenges before and you will stand up to this one.   Please understand that your husband is weaker than you because his addiction controlled him but he can grow and blossom and be the person you want him to be and he will do easier and quicker if you can support him.
      I hope this helps but please come back if it doesn’t.
      Velvet 
       

    • #2080
      i won a new life
      Participant

      Hi Ell, I read your story- I give you my thoughts as u have been openly willing to offer me support. I help u try to understand what your husband has done as a cg. For me it started innocent-looking for entertainment I assume for your husband the same but I can only speculate. After the first deposit and loss u accept and deposit again, after the second loss you don’t accept and want your money back. the only way to get it in a cg mind is to deposit more money, play higher stakes and chase your losses- this can quickly spiral out of control ($10,000 in 3 hours for me I chased to broke) When the demon took control the money didn’t seem real it was after the fact when my balance was at $0 reailty started to set in, I was done. I felt depressed/ashamed/guilty. I am sure your husband feel’s the same. It is not just his Gambeling to make him feel guilty but the loss of trust from you. Time heal’s all, and I hope your relationship/communication with your husband can be rebuilt to what u had before the gambling. Important for you to have control of the finances and make sure he pays his debts with any money u give him. I am divorced but my divorce was nothing to do with money or gambling, money did not matter my family did, but lack of trust and communication in my relationship with my x-wife led to diffrences we could not resolve without separation. You are a strong, caring, compastionate woman, with your strength and your husbands commitment I believe your family can be healed stronger, with more trust ,leaving this experiance as just a mear scare in the past.– 2/1/2013 2:14:53 AM: post edited by I won a new life.

    • #2081
      twilight16
      Participant

      Hi Ell,
      You are such a sweet person, so full of love and pure goodness. You really have been through a lot with your husband’s gambling and you are still suffering from the aftermath, the debt still ***** to be paid and it is affecting your family’s life. No one can be expected to just accept that lightly and just
      move on like it didn’t happen. You have every right to express your feelings to your husband. Your doubts are legitimate and all family and friends have them. It comes with the territory with the lies and manipulation we believed in the past, only to be crushed when confronted with the truth. The hardest part I believe is letting go of trying to make the cg make their recovery work. It really is futile and the best way to get a family healthy from this addiction is to focus on one’s own recovery, it ties in with the family. There are no easy solutions but getting the support you need for your happiness and your children is what matters the most. Just because a person is your family, it doesn’t give them the right to abuse chances given of should they always be excused. This is called abuse and there always should be a line that should not be crossed. You are doing in incredibly well XXXTwilight(I believe we get our greatest strength from the hardest obstacles)

    • #2082
      ell
      Participant

      ***** , Im at work and im running a lot in here …but I will like to say a thank you …
      Thank you   very much Larry for posting me.  Thank you for your help, I need it , and I appreciate  it . I will look all that you told me to look.  I will keep saying that you are a remarkable man and your post give strength to all (Cg and non Cg) Thank you .
      Twilight *****oooooo Nice to meet you too. I learn so much from your posts. We will speak soon. I want just to say that it was very nice to see you on my thread. You are very very very strong girl, you cannot imagine but you are an inspiration .
      Berber so nice to meet you. I can totally say that your posts help me too .we will talk soon. And you know the word filakia lol  ….im sending you all my love and filakia . Stay strong ! we can do it ..We can fix our lives we own that to our selves first.
      Sosad..i like the new shoes lol..Spoke to you soon you are not alone.

    • #2083
      velvet
      Moderator

      Dear Ell
      Just to let you know you are in my thoughts.  
      Velvet

    • #2084
      ell
      Participant

      velvet thank you for caring, honestly thank you a alot .
      I hope i had good news to give you as an upadate but things are a bit difficult now .
      Nomore and jilly thank you very much for your replies to me , i read them on the right time but sorry for not answering i feel a liitle bad this 10 days forgive me for that but both your replies helped me alot .
      velvet  i just learn and other lies , he told me lies and i cought him . no he dont gamble he is free .lies in our life time at the present.  We dont talk for 10 days now only a polite  behaviour. 
      i spoke with his therapist on the phone , he can understand me and he said to me that my silence is the most difficult sitouation for my cg to handle with but he thinks that is the right thing for me  to do. He thinks that im very strong and wise woman but he belives in my cg . He told me  when o storm finish there is a sunchine . I told him that if a sunshine comes i hope i still have the **** to recognise it . I told him to make his best for my cg but i dont know  , where i would be when the sunshine will come.
      I m at work . im running and i m with my daughter i dont want to care for nothing else . I i m not the type of person who can handles lies and lies and  lies  .
      i understand very well what is addiction and what is addiction bahaviour V I understand the reasons for the  mistakes . But i m struggling now ….
      it is hard now velvet…….. AGAIN!!!!!!!!!
      thank you all very much– 21/5/2013 6:23:22 µµ: post edited by ell.

    • #2085
      twilight16
      Participant

      Hi Eli,
      Just a quick *****, you are doing incredibly well and whether you will be around when the sunshine comes is neither here or there. We are only human and can take so much, repeated lies and deceit eventually breaks relationships. Enjoy your life Eli! Your daughter is very lucky to have you as her mom.
      XXXTwilight– 3/6/2013 3:09:59 PM: post edited by Twilight16.

    • #2086
      ell
      Participant

      thank you twilight a lot  for caring .wish you the best for you too ….ell

    • #2087
      velvet
      Moderator

      Dear Ell
      I have a visitor tonight and cannot write properly to you but I will tomorrow.  There will be sunshine for you and that is what matters. 
      V

    • #2088
      velvet
      Moderator

       
      Dear Ell
      ***** hurts – I understand.
      I am glad that your husband’s counsellor told you that your silence would be the most difficult thing for your CG to handle but I am not 100% sure it is the right thing for either of you.   Silence can be punishing and I am not of the opinion that your husband ***** to be punished.
      Silence is hard but dear Ell I am not judging – you have been through a lot of pain and your reaction is understandable.
      ***** is often a protective instinct and human.   I get the feeling that your husband is very afraid of what has gone before, what is happening and what will happen- his mind is not clear.   My feeling is that unless there is communication he can’t make things right and with lack of understandinghe could make things a lot worse.      
      I think it is great that your husband’s therapist tells you that he be***ves in your CG.   it was unusual I think to divulge such a confidence and therefore contains hope.   Did you tell him about the ongoing ***s?  
      I don’t know the ***s your husband is saying and maybe you would rather talk in the privacy of the group.   If he is still saying black is white I understand your concern.   If he is saying he has swept the floor, when he has not – but he is worried that you will be cross with him, I feel maybe he ***** a bit more time in his recovery – but he ***** to hear that it is the *** that hurt, not the floor being upswept which you cannot tell him in silence. 
      I am not a person who can live with silence Ell. My husband grew up with a father who would express himself in silence and he had an unhappy childhood with him.   I am a be***ver in communication although there are ***** when it is better to be silent but 10 days is a long time for your husband’s mind not to hear you speak.   He cannot know where he is with you.  
      Do you know where you want to be with him?   I know you will be ok and I know your daughter will be ok because of your strength – but I don’t want you to lose someone that you do love but who is not behaving as well as he should because he hasn’t reached the point of understanding – yet.     
      I think I need you to talk more so that I can understand.
      V  
        

    • #2089
      ell
      Participant

       ***** all and thank you

       ohhh Velvet trahnk you for all  …
      I’m tired in my mind not in my body. So many things to deal with …. I need a pause.
      I need time for all that. Maybe it is wrong choice my silence but I need time for my mind..Maybe I’m pushing him, I don’t know …You know..I have too much on my plate all this months. And all my problems are equally difficult.
       I have my cg problem , I have my family financial problem I have the less hours with my daughter and of course I have my businesses and I have crises here ,I own 3 businesses  I try to handle all the businesses financial and try  have c***nts. My head is full enough. If I don’t do that I will not have food on my home in the future, you can understand that.
      My day time runs quiqlky and I have boxes in my mind. My right hand here when I come in my work she always starts:  at 10 minutes you have this appointment and you must stay only 10 minutes then you have to do this and then that. Now I open for 10 minutes this box to try finding a solution … after I must talk with the teachers here and find the solutions too, but I must have clear mind, after that I must talk with the banks and I also must have clear mind.
      So I close the other boxes. when you have your own businesses and crises comes things are rough so when you also having a cg things becomes tougher …when you also having financial problems to deal with things becomes tougher, and when the day finishes at 23:00 and you go home, you understand that you saw your child only for 3 hours today and things becomes harder. And you are tired and sad because you miss your child, you cannot talk and talk and talk for the same things because you are tired and you must find some minutes to talk only to yourself.. I’m not a therapist velvet you can understand me , im his wife …Im not punishing him …

      I try to do everything I can, that is why I have too much on my plate all this months
      If I was only a wife and a mother I know that some things would be better. But I’m not .I don’t have time for a bath, I’m doing my hair and shower so quickly get my suits and leave home with a smile for my c***nts. My mind velvet is tired not my body so much but my mind.
      Forgive me velvet for writing all these now but I realize now that I need it. I absolutely know that you know all of that and you understand me very well and with all of you I can give solutions to my cg problems.
      I’m sad with the ***s of my cg and tired from all my problems that is why silence happens. It is not a trick. It happens because somehow someone cause it . I can understand velvet that this maybe is a punishment for both of us especially for my cg but let me tell you all my steps the last 10 days:
      I am o person like you v, I want to discuss and communicate and talk and try with discussing resolve the problems. (but you are the one who always reminds me myself and my feelings and my own recovery )
      It was Monday when I found out the first ***. He cannot speak to me, he cannot neither say I’m sorry, not because he don’t feel it but because he just can’t find the words or the way.
      His day time is very difficult too he is working for so many hours too . And he is missing his child too.
      The first 2 days I did a conversation with him I asked him why? What he was thinking? Why he choose it? For ***** to me. He cannot speak so I told him that ***s is something I don’t want in my life and now I must think how we are going to pay it . The next 3 days silence for the ***. We have a polite behavior.   I was waiting for something , something to tell me , even  I’m sorry , something .
      On Friday I sent him a letter 4 pages velvet, trying to give him understand what is  addiction and the behavior of that, trying to tell him my thoughts and my feelings. Some of my thoughts were emotional thoughts with feelings and some others were just cynical. But I did it velvet. I gave him time to think 4 days and then I realized that he need help and because I was not so good for a face to face talk  I choose to write him a letter of my hurt . To give him the time to think without my voice and my face if he is afraid of me.
      He answered me that he is very sorry and he loves me and he was afraid and he doesn’t know how to explain the choice he made. I’m not asking to explain me but I wrote him that im here I understand the addiction behavior and you must change it. If you don’t, you and I have a problem.
      He understand everything from the letter and he gave me his answer writing too . But face to face silence .I wrote him that I love him and need him (in the letter)  but    if all the addiction problems becomes hard for me so that I cannot be a good mother for my daughter I will leave you,  to find myself and my power for my daughter . Because my child deserve the best mother of the world. But she also deserve the best father too so it is up to you to make things only right for now on.
      All that happened the day with the letters. The next two days nothing and the third he told me another *** for money who owned to us but he ***d because he wanted to cover his friend to me. But this choice I told him that ok I understand that you want to cover your friend to me  but I cannot accept it.  I cannot understand how you can choose to leave me uncover for that money too?
      If the timing was not the same for the wrong choices things could be maybe better. But happens the same time and was his choice again.So i start thinking that i speak to a wall.

      That day was his therapist meeting.  The therapist  knows everything for me, he read the letters he knows the ***s everything. He be***ves in my cg velvet, yes he said that 3 or 4 *****.
      The therapist said to me that my silence sake him because he is used of me with conversations and efforts.
      And now he sees (my cg) that I’m not in the **** to talk and he realize that ***s are the only  way for loosing ell .  I wrote to  my cg that you afraid ell reaction  (mine) if she(i) leave ? But I wrote him that he will make me go from his wrong attitude.  He must try to do right things and he must succeed .There is no other choise.
      And now for me:  You asked me “””Do you know where you want to be with him?  “””
      I love him, I need him in my life and in my daughter’s life , I want my hair become white together ,  I want to go out from all this stronger and winners but if I understand that I cannot handle the situation  I will never leave someone to manipulate or take advantage of me or hurting me even he don’t do it on purpose velvet. That is why when the shine shine comes I don’t know where I would be…  
       And of course I know velvet that I must stand up again because I’m more mature and I can teach him again from these mistakes… and the silence is difficult because he is a close person and with no talking he is becoming closer and frightened and making steps back and we don’t need that now.
       But I think that silence also makes him realize that I’m not from silver and he must grow up. He is sorry for not talking me . Maybe someone tell that im pushing him …be***ve me that I’m not doing something on purpose ….My reactions just happens because I feel betrayed and I must change it that.
      I don’t know if you make sense from all that….im at work and im writing to you all my thoughts …..
      Thank you very much velvet ….for your help
       — 7/3/2013 4:18:27 µµ: post edited by ell.

    • #2090
      velvet
      Moderator

      Dear Ell
      It is late and I must go to bed so that I can wake up and give you my full attention.
      I understand every word you say – you are incredibly eloquent and your feelings radiate from the screen.
      I know all about the little boxes in your head – I have them too.
      I will write tomorrow – I hope you sleep well tonight
      V  
       

    • #2091
      velvet
      Moderator

       
      Dear Ell
      You are trying to be all things to all people and although you are one of the most amazing women I have had the honour to ‘know’ you are not super-human.
      I have just opened my ‘Ell Box’.   It is a delicate box packed with goodness, love and strength. There are 3 businesses in the box – they are demanding and need Ell’s attention.   There is child in the box – a child who will grow to appreciate her wonderful mum but who also wants Ell’s attention now.   There are in-laws in the box that are good people but a bit demanding.   The most difficult thing in Ell’s box is a CG – one she loves and who loves her but who is not able, or ready yet, to give Ell the help and support she *****. There are ugly lies and debts in the box that are making it muddled and heavy to carry.    There is a brother in the box who is kind and good and I am glad to see him there.   There is silence in the box where there should be laughter.
      It is a complicated box and one that I open with trepidation because although it is strong it is fragile. To me it is incredibly important that the box is protected, that the lies and the debts are taken out, making it easier to carry and leaving room for laughter.  
      I think dear Ell that there is nothing I could tell you that you do not already know – you have a capacity for understanding your husband and his addiction that leaves me awe-struck.  
      It is my belief that someone like you can and will come out stronger and that you will win.   I believe you can handle your situation because you are doing it, you have done it and I think you will continue to do it.   I think you need to pour out your feelings as you are doing but you need to know there are listening ears who understand.
      I know you are not punishing your husband – I hope I didn’t imply that you were.   I believe, as I think you do, that he feels he is being punished and he cannot see that this is the only way you can hold all your boxes together so you do not drop them.  
      I think you see your situation very clearly – your understanding of your husband’s addiction is terrific – his understanding of you is not but he can learn.  
      I can only offer you my ears, my thoughts and my earnest desire that you come through this valley of tears with your head up.   Your husband has not betrayed you but you know that.   Your silence is taking him further away and he is frightened but at the moment you cannot change that.
      Is there a day during the week when you don’t work?   Is there any time in your life for you?   Is there one hour that you can sit and eat with your husband alone and communicate your feelings?
      There is no ‘must’ about standing up Ell.   I want you to stand up because you are a mature person but I want you to stand up for you first.   CGs do lose their loved ones because they cannot cross the void between them that their addiction created – you do not ‘have’ to be the one that understands everything. 
      I want you to look after the person that is carrying my Ell Box.   I will support you as much as I can but I want you to look after you.
      If only it was so easy to open and shut the boxes in our lives.   You need time for ‘you’ Ell. Keep writing your thoughts. Writing helped me close my boxes that had been splitting open and spilling out – making a terrible mess.   I coped because I poured myself out in writing as you are doing.   I never went back and read a word that I had written – the writing had done its job. 
      Some time ago I heard about a woman of 85 who had, had an unhappy life with her husband and he had ****. She was consumed by anger that he had hurt her so badly.  She wrote all the things he had done to hurt her on pieces of paper then she took them to the top of a hill on a windy day, she read each one individually again and then screwed that piece of paper up and throwing it into the wind saying out loud ‘I am letting this memory go ’. When she had finished she went home and booked a holiday on a cruise ship and that was the last I heard of her.  
      I believe this is a true story but whether it is or not I think that writing pain down and then destroying the pages can give relief.   I destroyed all the pages that I had written – I burnt some and shredded some.   Your words are printed in this forum but you can lose them one day when you are ready. What you say in the group doesn’t leave the room.   I also believe in saying things out loud to yourself, so that you can hear your thoughts – silence does not allow that you do this.   Perhaps if you break your silence with yourself it will help you break it with your husband.  Thoughts go round and round in our heads and I believe they need an outlet. 
      I hope somewhere in all this you may find something that will give you some support.   Your husband’s addiction has hurt a very special person far too much – whatever you do I will understand.  
      As Always
      Velvet    
       
       

    • #2092
      ell
      Participant

      I just read your post and have tears in my eyes. You cannot imagine how well you can read me , If I you were near me I would give you a big and a tight hug . Only my mother can understand me so well and I feel you are my mother this time in my life.
      You are so special woman velvet , wise and you have a talent.
      I’m reading your post again and again and everything on my mind continuously changes , It is like you pushed Again Velvet the button which gives me power and strength to stand up immediately with no special effort  .You just did it .I feel that you made me find again  my forgotten self.
      It has been along time that I have not thought of my boxes and made me realize that ultimately is a new birth for my own self too.
      I feel the power and the feelings of your words. You broke my silence again …and
      the feeling I have now is that I want to hug you and I want to hug my cg too  . I want to give him  a smile and a hug to move on .
      thank you velvet you are a fantastic woman

    • #2093
      monique
      Participant

      Dear Ell.
      Yes, Ell, Velvet is a fantastic woman, who has used her painful experiences to learn about addiction AND about recovery for addicts and for those of us who are not addicts but do love an addict in our family. 
      I just want to add that you, too, are a fantastic woman.  You are in a different place and different stage of life, but, yes, you are also fantastic.
      I have been reading your posts and feeling for you in your struggles and am amazed at how you can cope with so much.  (I cannot cope if I am too busy.)
      I am glad you are able to get support here and I continue to hope with you for a good future for you and all your family.
      All good wishes, Monique. xKeep hope alive.

    • #2094
      ell
      Participant

      ***** my dear dear Monique
      When I found this sait  I cannot forget that you were the first person who give me a warm welcome and told me that I’m in the right place for support . Velvet and you were my first posts.  When I read your post I was thinking “”” please god I need that to be true i need support “”
      And it is true …here with all of you I have all the support I need and more than that. You are a wonderful person Monique and you cope very well and your cg is your son not a husband and I believe deep inside me (no one can change me this thought  ) that when a cg is your own child things are tougher  and harder than a husband cg (my opinion) . When your cg is a hb you do whatever you can for help but you always know that you can change him.lol
       That is why I respect very very much the mothers of cg . When I start reading the forum my choice was to read first the posts with the mothers because I thought that I have to find inside me the power like mothers to help my cg . That I must try see him like my child and help him. Thank you for helping me Monique to do that . You are a wonderful and caring woman.
      Yesterday , when I read velvet post I left , I went home ,it was late,  my child was sleeping and  my cg came near me when I was in the baby cot looking my daughter sleeping . He was so afraid almost terrified …..and I gave him a smile  and he hug me immediately  and he was trying to breathe .He couldnt breathe . He felt so relieve, I know it . He couldn’t stand any more the silence. And he couldn’t find a way how to speak…
      We are still in the journey until something new happens Again …………..
      With all my love ell
       
       

    • #2095
      berber
      Participant

      Dear Ell, well done! Positive vibes make negative energy go away! Filakia & thanks also for your message. X

    • #2096
      jenny46
      Participant

      Hi Ell
      Sometimes there is just nothing left to say, sometimes there are things that should be said and are not being said for whatever reason, sometimes when it is said, we are so busy talking that we miss it, we do not hear the volume of what is said by silence and in silence.
      Our trust is destroyed through incident after incident, lies and deceipt to the point whether we can wonder if it can ever return. The ability for a CG to trust in themselves is also destroyed and in turn this must affect their ability to trust in others, to trust enough to communicate, to say the truth when possibly they have lost touch with what that is. I think I learned that I expected too much. To say nothing, is one way of keeping you, compared with the truth which provides such a risk or is blocked in denial.
      Like you Ell I made every effort to understand this addiction, I read until I could read no more and posted until i dried up completely, there was an idea in my head of what a recovery would mean to him and to me and to us. There was also an idea of why it should occur and when. I was wrong on nearly all of it.
      I think the main reason I was a way off the mark was because I wasn’t actually listening, I thought I was but I wasn’t, I heard the bits I wanted to hear and filled in the gaps. I listened but didn’t hear. I read and I made things fit into my idealistic view of what should be.
      I said what I thought was the right things to say, things that would in some way make a recovery more likely, believing that in some way I could influence that – wrong again, all that achieved was to help me forget who I was as well !!
      What I am getting around to saying before i ramble on is, don’t allow this addiction to close you down, do not let it stop you from communicating what you feel and recieving the communication he is sending to you either within speech or silence, never mind what is being said or not said we all know that the addiction likes to dictate this – what do you see before you and what does it feel like ?
      My biggest regret if I have one was in not listening enough, the wrong type of communication, no wonder i couldn’t understand that it couldn’t be understood. Not saying what I should have said and saying what i shouldn’t say because it was what i thought I should say or i feared the response or the outcome if I said it. My biggest regret is the breakdown of communication it was very nearly the end for us.
      Your CG couldn’t find a way to speak but he let you know how he was feeling, it brought a lump to my throat reading the end of your last post. Keep listening Ell and he will tell you so much more
      Jenny x
       We see things not as they are, but through how we are today x

    • #2097
      velvet
      Moderator

       
      Dear Ell 
      Opening my Ell box and seeing your smile was wonderful.
      Reading your last post and Jenny’s reply has bowled me over.
      Neither of you mentioned being strong and yet both of you talked about yourselves and your change.   Neither of you talked about your CG’s change or what they had to do to make things right.   Neither of you talked about what they had achieved – only what you were achieving.      
      In your silence I think you have found Ell and somewhere in the last few weeks while Jenny has not been posting, it seems she has been finding herself. It isn’t about living with or without a CG in the end – it is about you.   It isn’t about your ***** – it is finding out who you are.
      I remember a member who wrote and said that when she was first told to look after herself and find her recovery, she didn’t understand – but it had been those words that had borne the greatest fruit for her.
      As long as we are defensive I don’t think we will change and the addiction makes us defensive.  We did everything with good intentions and only with the experiences of our own lives to guide us.   We tried to be good and honest so what was it all about?
      We met the addiction to gamble and it shook our lives to the core.   We tried to put everything right and everything went wrong.   In my opinion it is good to have an opportunity in life to sit down with yourself and look at who you are and how you got to the point you have reached and for that you need to be quiet.   When the addiction hits you, you can sink or swim – you can try and understand or feel they are wrong and that is that.   You can forgive or not. You can forget or not. You can work on yourself or accept yourself and feel there is no room for improvement.
      I cannot imagine what it is like to own the addiction to gamble.   I don’t know what my reaction to others would have been if I did own it.   What I do know is that it takes a mighty big person to analyse their behaviour if it has been dreadful to others and take control of a mind-distorting addiction.     If I couldn’t analyse my life, my thoughts, my flawed judgements whilst expecting him to do all these things then what was I offering?   I felt his action deserved a reaction from me but even without his action being to choose recovery I had to react to his addiction – for me.   
      I have learned more about people on this site than at any other time in my life.    It doesn’t just stop with the site either – what I have learned has spilt over into all my life.   I am not the person I was. I still don’t know what, or if, I did anything wrong.   I have taken a leaf out of the book of CGs when they enter a real recovery – they have to be honest with themselves and it isn’t easy.  
      I hope that you are still smiling and getting the hugs you deserve. Maybe there will be something still to learn for you but when you smiled, I believe you were saying that Ell had looked after herself and could cope.  
      There is only so much that this forum can give in information. What is done with the information is down to the member.    You made the difference in the end Ell – nobody did it for you and it brought a lump to my throat too.
      speak soon
      V

    • #2098
      ell
      Participant

      Jenny thank you  very much for posting me.  Sorry for not answering in the right time. I read your post  many ***** and I can feel all the meaning of your answer to me . Thank you for telling me and remind me things that  already happened  to you and protect  me for not doing . I know that from your experience I can learn all the next steps that I will find in front of me .  Jenny I try to listen but I cannot tell that I will always will be able to listen everything or understand everything.  If I want to listen everything and not lose nothing for the communication I must improve me .I realize that his addiction is something that happened in my life and it will change Me . I want to be ok with my self first , I don’t know if me and my cg will succeed but I want if we broke up someday (if) to be a stronger and  a healthier  personality for my child . Like you, you are a stronger person now and a wise woman. Even I am with my cg or not I want to work on me and improve me  to accept all the right and the wrong things that im doing for the addiction . Jenny thank you for teaching me to not allow the addiction to close me down and to not lose the meaning of communication first for myself and then for my cg.
      Velvet  your last  post for jenny and me  made me think so much and different things , the key to everything is our defensive attitude. If we go way from this feeling everything then has many chances to succeed.
      But For throwing away the  defensive attitude  means that  you must learn not to have complex and have free thought  and not  afraid  the changes in your  life .
      Free mind with no judge is the key to get read of the defensive attitudes that addiction causes and not only the addiction but almost everything  in life . But real no judge ,  not just to be polite and say that you will not judge. I know that you understand what  I’m trying to say .
      The person velvet with no complex in his attitude  , with free mind with no real judge the others and with always improving him self velvet was my father and is my brother now. I leaved with my father who  only dream was my brother and I to be personalities without complex because that was the key for someoene to succeed in all the chapters in  life  .My brother  teaching me every day when we have a problem to put it in a box and  go out of the box and see the problem from upstairs and try not to have feelings when we are upstairs the box but only free  mind and we will see the solution easily. Always  a third person see  more clear a solution to a problem than someone with feelings . He is teaching me  how we can be the third person for ourselves.

      Velvet my life of course with my brother now is always how we can improve our selves from heart. If someone can do this then he is a good person , not in words but in the meaning . I want if I die someone to tell that I was a good person and nothing more than that . I work for this and my brother always teaching me.
      But you can understand how difficult is to do this when the slaps of addiction  are hard enough and the feelings is pain after the slamps
      Your posts are so wise!
      I hope  velvet to understand me , I wrote my thoughts and I don’t know if I can make sense .  with all my love ell,
      My cg is smiling and he went to cut his hair and his beard and he feels more NEW now.
      — 13/3/2013 3:57:56 µµ: post edited by ell.
      — 13/3/2013 5:35:24 µµ: post edited by ell.
      — 14/3/2013 11:03:40 pµ: post edited by ell.– 20/3/2013 2:34:45 µµ: post edited by ell.

    • #2099
      livsg123
      Participant

      hey everyone. I am new here. my husband has been a gambler for as long as I can remember. its has caused many a problem, his lies, how low he would sink to get a bet on. it has come to head…my heart is broke, he doesn’t see it like I do. he hasn’t really accepted his problem. he says he goin to get help. heard it all before. we are not a well-off family and his using money that we need. lies. deceit. I am feeling really sad and hurt and unsure about it all. :(stay positive, strong and true to yourself

    • #2100
      velvet
      Moderator

       
      Dear Ell
      I am sure I can hear you saying good morning when I get up. 
      We have spoken since your birthday and I did write ‘happy birthday’ in Greek but forgot to press ‘send’.   I’m afraid I do it a lot – but then I am a lot older than you and need to be forgiven for being a bit dozy at *****.
      I just wanted to say good afternoon to you.  
      Zoals ooit – met liefde
      fluweel

    • #2101
      ell
      Participant

      My update
      ***** all my friends
      Here in Greece we had Easter.  So for 4 days we had holidays with no work at all. That was very very good for me. So I spent all the 4 days with my daughter with walks and teaching her so many things.  I’m so happy for this. She smiling at me and I’m so happyyyyy.
      My cg is doing ok he is still free from gambling. His recovery doing well. The 4 days helped our relationship too.  He got his monthly payment   at 01/05/2013 in his account. When he takes his salary   I have all the codes and transfer immediately all the money to my own account the same day. The new for me is that this month I didn’t do it. I did not transfer the money. I told him that I will do it …tomorrow. he asked me once  and I  told  him: tomorrow yes I will remove it but I didn’t . Today is 08/05/2013. For eight days his salary is in his own account. He never took a euro from there. I think that was a lesson for him and for me to see how accountable is now with the money and our debts.  Anyway I’m glad that the money is in the account but I will transfer them now and maybe the next 6 month I will do it again for check.
      My dear velvet Good afternoon to you too, today I’m at work but I’m full from my daughter.
      With all my love ell .
      ***** livsg123
      I m so sorry for not see your post on my thread because I was on holidays. I want to say to you a warm welcome here in GT site. I can feel you and understand you so good. Here you will find help and support with no judging at all. You are in the right place for you. I know that you post me 01/05/2013 and no one saw it because it was in my thread. Please make a new post in this forum with your name on it and you will meet all our members and of course you will meet velvet.  I don’t know how to do it for you, sorry.We will speak very soon.

      Welcome livsg and don’t forget how strong you are. With all my love ell

    • #2102
      adele
      Participant

      My Dear Ell,
      I am so glad you posted today. I am a little more comfortable posting on other’s threads now, so I want to tell you something because It is important to me that you know this:
      Yours was the first thread I read when I discovered this sight on 5/1/13,  and it was because  livsg123  had mistakenly posted her first cry for help on your thread that day – so you were at the top of the list. I call that a "God Thing". Have you ever heard that term? (I hope  livsg123  gets her post moved to F&F,  or starts her own thread, and I hope she comes back soon.)
      Upon arriving here at this website that night I was in a very sad place in my heart:  I’d had a very rough day (rough month really), and I was skeptical that anything could help. 
      I had other matters demanding my attention that night, and I might not have even spent much time here but for two things:
         1)  I was desperate and feeling frantic to find some answers. 
       And … what glued me to the screen … 
          2)  your truly amazing ability to express your thoughts and emotions about your experiences so clearly and eloquently.  
        Ell  –  in my dire emotional state that night it almost felt as though I was reading about ME.  You  were telling what,  in so many ways,  felt like MY story,  but you were speaking with a clarity and insight that I do not possess.   
      This is not meant to take anything away from your story, because it is yours alone – not mine.  But so many of the things you said over the months hit so close to my home that you have unknowingly (until now) landed in a special place in my heart.  (ha – that’s my first time to use one of those thingys)  
      I have drawn a great deal of strength, courage and hope from your posts – and the gentle but ever wise guidance given to you (and all of us) by our dear Velvet. 
      So, I just wanted you to know that YOU have made a difference in my life.  (these things are cool!) I hope you are smiling too…
      Sincerely,
      Adele
        
       
          
       "… should I give up or should I just keep trying to run after you when there's nothing there?"  Adele

    • #2103
      ell
      Participant

      My dear Adele ***** and welcome!
      Thank you very much for your kind words.  And yes I know very well what is “God Thing”. I felt the same when i came here .

      I’m very sorry for not answering you on time ….but I want you to know that my thoughts are with you .  I m posting now something quick  because as you read for me, my big problem in my life is time , but promise I will post you soon.
      I can imagine that you already read a lot in the site and that your knowledge now is stronger than your first day 01/05/2013. Please keep reading.  You will feel the point that you will feel ok . And the clicks are so many believe me.  
      My only advise for now is please separate the addiction from your hb there are two different things I think that you already know that but   of course separate you from the addiction problems .
       Make yourself stronger and stronger every day, the knowledege is here, please take it and you will become very strong and you will find the way how to win all the bad feelings inside you.All the years you had your self on "diet" please now give your self the "food" that is needed .Take care your self first , you deserve it. I can understand and feel everything I’m reading in your posts and I will be back soon. The food is the knowledge adele and the open ears, keep reading and listening and you will fell the deference.

      You have a very strong profile Adele I believe in you, start believe to yourself too you are a strong woman !

      I think that that night that you met me was very hard for you but I think now with your knowledge things will be with baby steps better and better every day .  Do not forget yourself me dear Adele.
      It is an honor for me that I know  you now ……I m sending you my cyber hug .
      With all my love ell

    • #2104
      ell
      Participant

      I want to say thank you  twilight no more jenny and adele for your answers . All helped me a lot . Im sorry for not answering in the right time but I have big problems with my work now .
      Velvet  I want to say that im ok  ….i have a little difficult time with him but not have the time to solve it . That is hard but no time now for his problems I have very big problems at my work  and he respect it .
      My cg told me with his words::
      “””””I don’t need to go to the counselor anymore and exactly never needed.I know it inside me that I never needed.  From the first day I said that I stopped and that is the true.  And the counselor told me that  if I believe that I’m going to him and pay him for helping to stop my addiction is wrong because I don’t have problems with the  gambling  and exactly from the first day that you found it out  I don’t have problems . But I’m going and I will still go because I cannot help you with the “if “ you always have. You cannot believe that I don’t need a therapist and I’m  not asking you to do it  so I will keep going for you and maybe I find something else for myself with the meetings  and give you the time you need too  to realize with baby steps that I don’t need the counselor every week .
      That was his words . I m a little anxious , I don’t know were is the true in his words . I know that I have to think a lot to find the true in my own head and that is the problem with my cg . He believes that im not trusting him so what ever he say to me for the meetings I will be anxious .   I told him that  I need toi think a lot and yes that makes me anxious and I m not ready to  talk about it now because we have problems at work .
      That is my case now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
      Thank you all very much

    • #2105
      velvet
      Moderator

      Dear Ell
      I will write to your tomorrow.  I will think too.
      V
       

    • #2106
      ell
      Participant

      The counselor feedback was :
      The last sessions were difficult with no progress. The counselor found out some lies or secrets that my cg never told him and  asked him, (i dont know what the therapist found)  so the last meetings were hard  because the attitude of the counselor was different now .   
      The counselor said :
      My cg just wants to let pass the time and everything will just and simple go away. My cg cannot realize until now that he must do things except waiting the time pass. My cg cannot realize until now that is not only that he doesn’t gamble. His recovery is something more than that. Now he has some steps back my cg . But he said that we need time and patience .
      I told the counselor that I know all these from the first day. I know that my cg is going to the therapist because I said it. I know that he doesn’t realize everything that happens in a meeting ….but I said him as long as I am with him he will not stop the meetings and I hope I believe I pray that someday he will understand that the meetings are for him and not because he is doing a favor to his wife. That is what my cg told me.
      I asked him if he wants another counselor. And he said to me no he is very good and im ok with him I don’t need a new one.
      But velvet I know that the counselor is very good with knowledge and I know that my cg interprets things that the counselor says. My cg is a flat mind.
      I Don’t know what to think ….i m trying to think. I left for a month his salary in his account and it is still there. But I’m anxious because he told me that I don’t trust him and I cannot see that he never took the money from his account. and im afraid that what if all that are on purpose . He kept him self from not taking the money so I will give him my trust and tell him ok  kept the money and ok stopped the counselor . I m getting crazy with the ifs
      I m thinking and thinking
       
       — 4/6/2013 2:28:21 µµ: post edited by ell.

    • #2107
      velvet
      Moderator

      Dear Ell
      Your husband is hoping you can trust him but realises how difficult it is for you, he says he is prepared to go on seeing the counsellor because you are worried.  My initial thought is to let him.
      Your peace of mind is important.   Trust takes ages following the experience you have had and cannot be hurried.   When it comes, it is a revelation, you will feel lighter and freer but you don’t feel that yet.   The trust I have for my CG is that I trust him to look after his addiction and live a gamble-free life.   I cannot and should not allow myself to forget that he is a CG.   I know that he is aware every day that he is a CG, that he has to make a daily affirmation to live that day without gambling and that is what he does.  This is what I trust.   I don’t need him to talk about it, nor do I find the need to talk about it, or worry about it – that is my trust.
      What do we mean when we say we trust another human being?  I trust my husband and by that I mean he is a good man who has not hurt me.   I don’t say ‘yet’ because that is not what we say – but how do I know?   Trust is not something we can see – it is confidence in another but that other person is human, not divine.   Your husband is a good man who has an addiction, that addiction hurt your relationship and from all you have said and all his words that you have relayed, he has realised that if he wanted his Ell – he had to change.  He has done the best he can but the debts are still hurting.  You still have to work long difficult hours to keep your lives balanced.   The memories are still too fresh. 
      Do you still have the gambling conversations?  
      I am sure you are explaining yourself well to your husband but the gambling conversations with a CG who is really trying to live gamble-free means that the CG cannot trust the person they love completely either.   There comes a time when we have to take a leap of faith too if we want a healthy relationship.
      Dear Ell – I know how scary it is – I am not sure at what point I knew that I had let go of the past – in some ways just writing this to you is like hearing it for the first time.   Don’t be anxious – it will not hurt him to keep seeing the counsellor for a time but doing it to please you could be difficult for him because he ***** his chance to prove to you that he can be trusted and also to himself.
      Is he going to GA or does he have any other support apart from this counsellor?   This site is also available in Greek.  
      Speak soon
      V
       
       

    • #2108
      ell
      Participant

      Velvet *****  and thanks
      Velvet, no we don’t have gambling conversations.   Nothing for gambling.
      But We have issues when only I m finding a new debt. And that is a little often. But we don’t discuss even there velvet.
       I’m finding the debt he is telling I’m sorry, I’m getting silence I don’t speak he is frightened and he is waiting me to react. That’s it and nothing more than this. I never do conversations for gambling and I don’t want to.  I asked him sometimes if he is tempted and if he thinks that he need something more for his recovery he answered no and that’s it. Im answering that ok I believe you.
      I’m not the woman that every day I’m asking how was your day? Are you tempted today? Have you thinking the gamble? What did you do with the therapist? No I’m not asking anything. Only the basic .   I’m not telling you  that I don’t feel that I would like sometimes to ask all these questions but when I feel that I want to ask something I just stop my self.
      The only thing that I do the same every day is I’m giving the money he need for the day only and he lives me in the kitchen the receipts. And I have all the accounts.  Except this month which I left him all his salary in his account because I’m running at work and couldn’t transfer it .Of course the money are in the account.
      No he is not going to GA . He went at the beginning for one time and he refuse to go because he thinks that he don’t need it. (The Ga here in Greece it is not organized it is an empty room and you wait if someone will come .No one in charge no plans to follow).
      No he is not reading the site , he refuse to do it. At the beginning I  told him, he knows very well that my recovery is from gambling therapy site. But he also thinks that he doesn’t need to read others stories because his excuse is from the first time  that he cannot relate with anyone else story.
      So his only support from the beginning    was / is  the counselor , nothing else and that is because I said it .If he was in his hands he would stop the counselor because he thinks that he is ok and never needed someone to help him to realize that  he was addicted . He knows it and he stopped it immediately because he understood his mistake . That is so simple for his mind. In his mind is that he is not addicted anymore. He  never was tempted 9 months now and he doesn’t t miss it . And of course he doesn’t need any help and  I am the one that im making his recovery a huge matter in my mind because he doesn’t gamble now .But he semms that he understand that he is the reason for all my fears now.
      Velvet you know very well all my journey with my cg . Yes he is a good man and yes he doesn’t gamble now and yes he is a good father and a good husband and yes he works a lot to solve with me all the debts. Yes he giving me the receipts and yes he don’t ask for extra money . Yes he is the same husband that I married he is no different in all the others chapters and yes in the only chapter that he made a wrong he solve it  and he stopped the gamble . And now we try to solve the  consequences.
      But the word  “totally trust “ No im not ready .  I don’t know why but im not ready. if he stops the meetings I will lose the only small and general feedback that I have . I m not ready for this .  I know that I must prepare my self for this but im not ready now .   It is my instinct.
      I need to see something more from just im not playing.  I don’t know what but im not ready .
      He deserves everything and I deserve everything also . The balance is difficult for me now.I dont know what to do .

      Thank you very much velvet for everything and I will write soon .
       
       — 5/6/2013 3:52:26 µµ: post edited by ell.

    • #2109
      adele
      Participant

      Dear Ell,
      From a number of things you’ve said in your recent posts, it seems to me that you are perhaps waiting for your husband to have some sort of revelation in his counseling that will explain how and why this awful thing happened to him:   And this revelation will be so eye-opening for him that he will be relieved to understand it himself:   And this new understanding will give him  the confidence and resolve to never allow it to happen again:   And if he is able to open his mind and heart enough to reach this level of understanding he will then be more capable of communicating this assurance to you.
      As I write to you I realize this is exactly what I want!   And I believe it is absolutely possible  –  isn’t it Velvet?
      You said the counselor found some lies and secrets.  I know that holding on to lies and secrets will only bring pressure, guilt and **** swings – so I worry that you have left money in his account…. 
      And you said the counselor’s attitude was different.  Do you mean the counselor is concerned?  Confused?  Frustrated?
      I have no experience at all with counseling of any sort, but I have been reading – a lot!  I wonder if the counselor wants to dig deeper to determine what is behind your husband’s addiction?   In GA I think this is what they call “Pressure Relief”.
      I’ve also read that therapy,  if it lasts long enough,  can determine the trigger that causes the stress that causes the gambling –  which is the coping mechanism for dealing with the stress.  Once the counselor determines what is causing the stress they can teach the CG new ways to cope with it.
      I hope Velvet will clarify some of this.
      Your anxiety is so very understandable – I deal with it every day myself. 
      Please remember what Velvet said:
      Your peace of mind is important.
      Trust cannot be hurried (not by you and not by your husband).
      When it comes,  it is a revelation  (you cannot just decide one day that you will trust your husband no matter what you feel in your gut).  When this happens,  you will feel lighter and more free in your heart  –  but you don’t feel that yet Ell.  
      I know I have a long ways to go before I’m ready to take that “leap of faith” – and I’m okay with that,  even if my husband isn’t.    Can you be okay with that for yourself? 
      I have to believe that recovery and trust can happen,  and that things will feel easier once honesty is maintained  –  but I also know it is a process that takes time, effort and patience.
      You and your husband are 9 months into this process and I think you have made tremendous progress!
      Be sure to take care of yourself – no matter how busy you are – and as always, my thoughts and prayers are with you.
      Adele
       "… should I give up or should I just keep trying to run after you when there's nothing there?"  Adele

    • #2110
      ell
      Participant

      Adele ***** (a quick answer)
      And thank you very much for your post .
      Yes that is what I want , i agree with you totaly
      In the first paragraph of your answer is all that I need….
      Take care your self adele you are doing so  well – just keep  improving yourself!
       

    • #2111
      jenny46
      Participant

      Dear El
      You are doing well, very well. I am becoming a little facinated by this idea of total trust and what it means. I can only wonder whether I could totally trust my CG. Well let me think !! NO. Well that was taxing, and it is because I believe that the addiction that he has is a life long illness with no ‘cure’ and therefor even the longest of recoveries have the potential to stumble along the way. If the addiction is lifelong then so are the risks.
      Just as a CG can become complacent and drop the barriers that have given protection, then my own belief is so can we become complacent and ask for trouble where there is no need to do so. So would I have a joint account, loan etc etc with my partner – absolutely not and if that means I am distrustful then, so what, better than being skint.
      I would neither wish to place temptation under the nose of what is an extremely powerful addiction. I guess what i’m saying El is I can trust the person to drag me out of a burning room (well possibly not at the moment !! he might quite like to nail up the door!!) but I will never trust the addiction, not ever and although it is good to be able to separate the addiction from the person, we can never take it away. Therefore good barriers are not signs of distrust they are signs of common sense, and protection for both, they are an indicator of the willingness of both to make a successful recovery.
      I am further confused when we discuss at length on this forum the tremendous lies we are told and the elaborate lengths that the addiction is capable of, we recognise fully the damage the lies, above everything else, does to our relaitionships and the core of who we are and then suddenly when the word recovery is mentioned we all suddenly begin to wonder why we either cannot trust or why we are in the ‘wrong’ for not trusting or its just not happening – its interesting to say the least, the terrific amount of pressure that we can place on ourselves, to trust.
      I think El good barriers will always be a positive, they can be placed there and left alone, forgotten about, removing the need for a lot of time consuming running around and checking. Trust will happen when and if the time is right when it  happens you will know it has and where it is. Putting the trust issue on to you is only a form of manipulation.
      I have gone right off at a tangent to the point I have forgotten what I was going to say in the first place. I think it was going to be along the lines of – there may never be that revelation, that one thing that proves a change is on the horizon, maybe a series of tiny things that grow along the months ahead, good things that are not one offs or designed to convince us that recovery is happening but little things that happen more than once and are not only going to be visible straight after a counselling session. Sometimes we find the answers where we least expect them to be.
      Jenny
       We see things not as they are, but through how we are today x

    • #2112
      ell
      Participant

      I understand everything jenny and Adele wrote me, and girls thank you very much. I m thinking a lot of what you said me.
      But  I feel that I’m in  the middle of a serious case now because I must react fair to someone and of course I must protect my insecure.
       And I think that the problem at the end is mine not his….even if he caused the problem I feel that is mine….
      Well that’s it in a little word:   (please just suppose)
      You married someone 1 year and you found out that he is a gambler.
      You talked him he listened immediately.
      He never played from that day he stopped.
      9 months he is free
      He works 2 jobs to pay the debts
      You have all the accounts and he gives you receipts every day and he never ask for money
      He cut the internet in our home we don’t have he doesn’t need it 
      He has now and old model phone with no internet from the first day of his recovery
      He doesn’t miss the gamble or the internet( I can say that because  he is not anxious about these things.)
      The counselor is ok with his progress 9 months now.
      He is always and he was home with his family, never go out alone.
      He understand his wife that she is with fears now
      He is trying every day for the best of his family. He is commitment to this.
      And he is with a smile in his face …..
      He don’t argue with you …and he answering whatever you ask him
      Suppose that this is your husband.
      Everything goes ok until now .
      And now is the time after 9 months:  he is telling you that he feels that he doesn’t need the therapist … or to say it better:  not every week
      What would you do?
      I know that you will tell me that no one could tell you what to do.
      But I have to separate my own -my private fears from his early successful recovery.
      I don’t know if you can understand me. I think is a red line here. I must be fair enough with him.  I want to see the truth not only my feelings.
      He is doing very well and he asks something and because I’m afraid I must do what? I must  castrate him ?????? 
      I must not and I don’t want if something scares me just say the excuse to myself, ?? ?ll you are not ready so it is ok to still put up your barriers and say no. No one will tell me that I’m doing wrong because I’m the “victim”. But a third person can understand that maybe you are a little unfair.
      But you begin to make yourself ready for something only when someone ask you.
      I was shocked the first day from fears.
      Now I m in the stage that I must separate my fears from his successful recovery. And I think that I will feel the light. Because from the first day I need a real recovery on him and on our relationship.  
      If he will betray my trust is my private fear. He must first have a chance. If he has no chance in an early but successful recovery then I think that I’m a ****** and I’m looking only myself. The best thing is to try to look both.  
      I just try to write my thoughts and my feelings but I don’t know if I make sense.
      I want to protect me and my fears but I don’t want to do this by just  kicking him out. I think that I have 2 different things in my table but in the same time.
      If I never give him what is he asking to try then I m not truly with him, I’m with him only when is ok with me??
      I’m trying always to think both sides. But the 2 sides are different and I think that I should find the solution for each side.  is not the  same solution , I suppose , I think .
      Forgive me if I don’t make sense. But I know that your answers will help me
      Thank you
      ell
       

    • #2113
      velvet
      Moderator

      Dear Ell
      I wrote this before I saw you had written.  I will post this as I don’t have time, at the moment to do more – but I will read and reply to your latest post soon..
      You have 2 good replies there.
      In my opinion a CG does not have a revelation as to why or how they own this terrible addiction – BUT – it is unnecessary for such a revelation because what they learn and what they can understand is that they can live in control of their addiction.  There are many, many theories expounded on the ‘why’.  Harry wrote recently that ‘gambling is a reaction to life’.  It is not necessarily a reaction I believe of a bad life or a good life.      
      The most important revelation, the one that I do believe in – and which can only come with time – is the revelation that comes to a non-CG when they have trusted for a long time and not been let down.
      Ell I accept that my CG is a compulsive gambler.   My joy came from feeling that I was in control of my life again.   I accepted that although my CG has his addiction for life, he desires more than anything to live in control of his addiction for life and therefore it was down to me to live my life to the full – just as he was going to do.  
      I have no idea what my CG discussed in his rehab but it doesn’t matter – his memories were often false anyway so how could he remember or know all he had done – addiction counsellors are aware of this.   In the UK we say the proof of the pudding is in the eating, which means that if a true recovery is being lived then that is the proof but it does take time.  
      CGs begin to see the way of truth when they are in recovery and they become lighter because they have laid a tremendous burden down but it is unfair, I think, to expect them to unpick that burden apart to find the reason ‘why’.    Of course they try and work out why, of course counsellors and psychiatrists try and work out why but this is where I have a problem.
      I have 3 children – all raised with equal opportunity and love.   All of them had support and love and loads of fun and I valued honesty in the home.   Why one of my children has the addiction to gamble and the other two do not is beyond my comprehension.   I accept though, that it is, the way it is and it is the reason I ‘know’ you cannot get the revelation you want  because your husband doesn’t know ‘why’ and that is not an excuse
      I have no reason to believe that if therapy lasts longer the trigger that causes the gambling will be found.    I believe the ‘right’ counselling; the ‘right’ therapy can be enough even if it is for short time but I do think it is better, for ‘your’ peace of mind that your CG continues for longer – and you are my concern.  
      CGs do not need to find the cause for a change of life. The counsellor can help the CG think through their behaviour and when the CG really wants to live gamble-free they can teach new ways to cope with life.    The only thing that really matters, in my opinion, is that the CG changes and lives a life gamble-free.   It is what the non-CG wanted more than anything and I believe we have to try and accept that there are many things we will never know. 
      Sorry Ell – It does come down to ‘time’ again.   It will be your greatest healer along with your husband living a decent life.   
      If your husband continues as he is, one day you will feel lighter – one day you will feel able to forgive and one day you will feel able to trust.  I cannot give you a time scale.    I can only tell you that I walked that long lonely road before you – I didn’t force trust and I didn’t force forgiveness.   One day I forgave.   Later on I realised that I was happy and that I trusted my CG with his addiction – it was not for me to worry about – he was looking after his life and I had learned that looking after mine not only gave me peace of mind but made a difference to him.    
      I am walking with you Ell and you are doing fine.   Don’t worry about signs – just keep going as you are.  How else can he prove to you that he is gamble-free than by living gamble-free?   It is what I live with and I am content.
      As Ever
      Velvet
       

    • #2114
      jenny46
      Participant

      Dear El
      Slow down, I am trying to digest that last post but from what i am reading he is doing all that he can, but both of you will work your recoveries at a different pace. You are being fair – more than fair and if on the odd occaision you lapse into some little ****** then so what – we are not perfect are we.
      You may know the cause of the problem but yet you feel it is yours – well I get that because I felt the same way only because if you love someone and you live with them how can it not be your problem to, the only difference I could say is that you cannot solve it for both of you.
      There is no need to throw him out or to put up that sort of barrier (unless you want to!!), by barriers I mean financial protection which can help you relax and remove some of the risks for him, not big walls around you fuelled by fear, although I could understand that to.
      I see you talk a lot about his recovery and the recovery of your relaitionship but not much about your own recovery. Your fears are important and are very real and no I would not tell you what to do, only what I would do and right now that would be exactly what I am doing now – nothing !! I am just enjoying the company of my partner and not stressing over things that I know I cannot control or change.
      Your recovery is important El, your ***** are as important as his, thats not being unfair, but one thing I did learn is that someone who is in early recovery struggles to cope with their own ***** and cannot cope with ours as well. Another good way of supporting him is to be happy by doing the things that make you happy. Your recovery is within you El.
      Jenny
       We see things not as they are, but through how we are today x

    • #2115
      velvet
      Moderator

      Dear Ell
      I ‘think’ I might have answered you in my post already, indirectly.
      Your heart appears to be telling you to let go but your mind is afraid to do so.  
      Apart from a longer time without gambling Ell, I have no more to base my happiness on than you have.  If you let go, you will be like me.   We both love CGs, we are both aware what compulsive gambling means but we both want to let go, forget the sadness and celebrate our lives because our CGs ‘are’ controlling their addictions.   Nobody told me when to let go – it was my decision- nobody could tell me – I didn’t even know myself until it happened.  It would appear I could have done it after 9 months and the result would have been the same.   
      I haven’t said it for a time but there is no judgement on this forum and I certainly cannot judge anyone.   Whatever you decide to do will be accepted by me.  
      You are trying to see the solution from 2 sides and they are different but fundamentally you both want the same thing – to live without the compulsion to gamble in your lives.   Recoveries are different – they don’t conform but as long as they keep moving forward you will be going the right way.
      Fear diminishes our lives.  The more effort you put into visualizing a successful outcome, depicting with crystal clarity what ‘you’ want to happen, the more your feelings of confidence with increase. 
      I use the expression that I will not live with the addiction to gamble again.   Like me Ell – if you trust him and he lets you down badly again – you will know what to do.  
       
       

    • #2116
      ell
      Participant

      thank you jenny for your post , i need it and i appreciate your answer .
      velvet *****
      It is Sunday and im at work ….
      The poem "Limbo " came on time, thank you from my heart .
      With love ell

    • #2117
      ell
      Participant

      *****
      yesterday late at night i ***** the money and it was 195 eyro . Today in the morning was 145 euro . OK 50 euros missing and he opened my bag to take the keys in the morning . i asked him  were is the 50 euro and he told me that he didnt took it and he tried to prove that i ***** wrong the money. I ***** the money yesterday in front of him . Something dont fit in the puzzle. He told me that he didnt took and that he con not do anything else to belive him .
      something is happening….i dont know what but something is

    • #2118
      velvet
      Moderator

      Dear Ell
      As always I cannot tell you what to do but within the first two years of my CG controlling his addiction I had a problem and I was afraid.   I believed that things were not right.  
      Eventually I thought I would tell my CG my fear.   I ******* my fear up as best I could because I was afraid of upsetting his recovery but I had to ask for ‘me’ and I tried to explain that to him.  He said he was fine with me asking and that I was completely wrong in my fear.   I knew afterwards that I had hurt his confidence and my fear was proved groundless.  
      Dear Ell – if you ‘know’ 100% that he has taken the money then I think it is best to tell him.   If you have any doubt at all, I think it is best to stay quiet.   You counted the money in front of him – he would know he could not take 50 euro without you knowing. 
      Your husband has tasted life in control of his addiction and he has loved it.   If he has threatened that happiness he will be shaken and frightened and I believe you will know.  
      Be watchful and keep posting.   Don’t test his addiction.   I remember being told in Gamanon that it is unfair to leave money around when a CG is in early recovery – not because they will take it but because it is a temptation.  
      I am concerned for you and I and I am here for you.   I made a mistake thinking the worst Ell but I know it is a very difficult time trying to do the right thing.  
      Speak soon
      ?p?? p??ta sa? st???? a??p? µ??
      V
       

    • #2119
      velvet
      Moderator

      Dear Ell
      As I understand it you still have the ear of your husband’s counsellor.   Maybe it would be good to tell him the situation and let him establish if there is a problem.
      V

    • #2120
      ell
      Participant

      vevlet thank you very much … i just saw your post .
      it is a quick post now because i have problem in my work …but soon enough i will post you all the details . yesterday we had a talk and yes it is my word against his yes i believe he took it and yes he is saying to me that he didnt  but he cannot prove it . i discuss with him the new model of trust that i want to have in our marriage because we dont have another option . we can  not have the relationship we had before …i just cannot have the same relationship …that relationship is dead and the trust of that relationship is dead too . We can have a new relationship and a new model of trust . That is good for him and for me . I told him everything and i told him if he can not follow in this i can not do anything . I can not forget i just cant and i told him not to except me to do that im a human . If he want me to forget i told him that he must heat me in the head and have amnisia . I can and im trying to lock all this in a box behind . But it will be there the box and because i dont want to open the box neither him we must together find the model to not allow it . i will write yoo soon enough velvet sorry i have a client now …..

    • #2121
      velvet
      Moderator

      Dear Ell
      You are an amazing woman.   I too would struggle not be***ve the evidence of my own eyes but I agree your husband cannot prove that he did not take the money.  
      If he told you that he had taken the money what would your reaction be?   I suspect that whatever did happen your husband will be shaking in his shoes at the wrath that would come down on him if he said he had ****.   It is, I be***ve, one of the greatest conundrums the non-CG faces – the ***** is worse than the loss of money but the CG cannot comprehend that.   They will *** through fear and maybe it is a justified fear – we are, as you so rightly say, only human and as humans whose trust is shaken, we feel great anger.
      I agree that you will always know what is in the box and I think it is unwise to forget.   It is possible to close the box though, with a struggle and I admire your wisdom in doing so the way you are.
      Find the model Ell – it does exist.   I t does mean, I think, that some***** we have to be silent but if necessary there are ***** we have to roar.   Unfortunately roaring against the addiction to gamble does not make it listen but the non-CG ***** the outlet – this forum is always here for that.  The middle road is of course ‘discussion’, keeping the lines of communication open and the CG aware that you have not forgotten, without constantly reminding them in an obvious way.    Certainly I be***ve that cash should never be left ***** around or easily accessible – rather than seeing it as lack of trust, I see it as fighting the addiction on the loved one’s behalf.
      I have guests for the weekend ‘again’ but I will be back next week to read your thread.  I suspect that he did take the money because in a lapse of complacency he be***ved he was not a CG – he has been saying he found it easy to not gamble – it is not.   Your husband’s counsellor, I think, should be in possession of the knowledge of this loss of money as he too seems to think that all is well – complacency is the devil on the shoulder of the CG and many counsellors do not appreciate the deviousness of the addiction.
      I hope this makes sense.  I came on to see if you had written but I have got a house to clean and tidy before my guests come.  I have been watching the tennis at Wimbledon for nearly 2 weeks and the dust is thick!
      Look after Ell and baby Ell and also Mr Ell.   In my opinion, his addiction is stronger than he realised and you are ahead of him in understanding.
      Velvet 
       

    • #2122
      velvet
      Moderator

      Dear Ell
      It was great to see you yesterday evening.  
      You are doing so well
      V

    • #2123
      ell
      Participant

      ***** all my friends,
      I m reading the forum every day, and I see many friends they are struggling and I feel guilty inside me because I couldn’t find the strength to give just  reply to them . But im reading and Im learning many new things from all you every day and you are in my thoughts.
      My update :
      Nothing has changed with the work and the hours I spent there and the debts …I miss every day my baby because I cannot see her.
      My cg he is still going to the counselor and he is free from the first day (11 months now) and he is commitment to free life and to his family. He works a lot and he tries every day for the best.(that is what my eyes see every day) We don’t argue we are polite each other.
      I guess The problem is me. My hb he is waiting for Me. Every day he is there and waiting me to free myself and go a step forwards our relationship.  We are polite velvet but we are frozen. I want to say to him that I love him I want to give him a hug , I feel it every day that but I am frozen I just don’t do it because I think that if I leave myself free again and hurt me again ? If he is not telling the truth, if I cannot understand the truth? What if im blind? And all that questions lock me and making me a frozen woman.  And when I’m frozen-a cold polite woman he is afraid..And sometimes I can understand that he feels a little injustice because he is free and here.
      So he is waiting for me, every day he is looking me and he is afraid to make a move , and when we discuss(sometimes-no time for discussions) he always say that I cannot do anything more im free im telling you the truth and I will wait for you all the time you need to let yourself free again.
      I read Limbo again and again and again ….
      I feel the same like Limbo and I cannot do it in action … Im afraid all the what if but I cannot leave all my life lock inside me .
      How difficult is to find a balance to free your self with your cg and of course to protect yourself the same time.  …………………………………..
      ………..and, today I wrote him on Skype because we are to work
      “How are you my love?” He was smiling, I haven’t said that word months now. I need to say that I love him but I cannot make the move. Im stacked
      It is a little difficult to find the balance …I need to let it just go! He is free what else I want?? I think sometimes I still grieving for my old relationship.
      You are all in my thoughts
      With all my love ell
       

    • #2124
      velvet
      Moderator

      Dear Ell
      I am packing to go away tomorrow for 2 weeks but I had a quick look at the forum and there you were.
      When the danger is coming from another then you have no control over it but if the danger is within you then you can conquer it.  Trust yourself Ell, you are very wise.  
      When we live with the addiction all we want is for the addictive behaviour to cease – nothing else matters, we give no thought to ourselves, we are so ******* up in the  addiction of another. 
      When a true recovery starts for the CG, why does that cause so much turmoil for the person who loves them?   It is the fear to trust again after days, weeks, months and years being spent knotted up like a coiled spring.   The non-CG is afraid to let that spring go, afraid of being out of control again and that fear is perfectly natural.  
      It is my firm belief that you and your husband will find a deeper relationship in time.   The girl who gave me the greatest support when I started my recovery was married to her CG husband, who was 15 years clear of his last bet.     They told me separately of their love for each other.   Both of them said that everyday was better than the day before – it was and is, an incredibly deep, strong and loving relationship. 
      Your husband cannot give you a promise that he will never gamble again but equally none of us know what is round the corner for anybody however much we love them.   When we are first married we do wear rose-tinted glasses but thank goodness we do eventually take them off because perfection is not reality.   Mr V does not have an addiction but I can’t ‘know’ what our tomorrow will be – I can only trust that we will be happy but nobody can give a cast-iron guarantee for any relationship.     
      Today on Skype you called him ‘your love’, you haven’t said it for a long time – ‘I love you’ is just going to take a bit longer.    Perhaps you could tell me how you feel about him and then see how the words look and feel.   If you love him you will tell him when you are ready.
      Don’t rush anything, he is waiting for you because he loves you.   I cannot put a time on how long it will take you because we are all different.  I would imagine it is your mind that is frozen and not your heart which I suspect is warm enough to thaw an ice-berg.  When you are ready your mind will thaw but no amount of worrying will make it happen any faster.
        
      I would be surprised if you were not grieving your old relationship – it was carefree.  I think it is like becoming an adult and realising that childhood days are gone – there is sense of loss but it can be replaced by a sense of purpose, to make things better than they were before because you have a maturity that you did not have before.
      I wish there was a magic wand but unfortunately there is only hard work and perseverance that will bring you what you want.   I have told you before that I wouldn’t be here if I didn’t know for positive that good can come out of this evil.
      It is easy to say that you know you must let it go but it is quite another thing to do it.  Yes you are free but you want proof and that only comes with time but you are doing brilliantly.  In time ‘what if’ becomes redundant as does ‘if only’.  
      Just keep going as you are Ell.
      ?e a??p? ?p?? p?t? ????te
      V       
       

    • #2125
      berber
      Participant

      Dear Ell,
      Have a good weekend! I feel for you and I hope we can chat live again soon.
      Filakia,
      Koukla 😉

    • #2126
      twilight16
      Participant

      Hi Eli,
      Just wanted to say ***** to you. Your stance and love has made it clear to your husband and the addiction what you will tolerate and what you won’t. I am so happy to read that your husband has been doing so well with his recovery as you are. In regards to feeling frozen, I do believe it is normal when you have been through so much. I believe this is a form of being in protective **** and I have experienced this too. I find to get past it, I seperate the addiction from my father and this allows me to show my love for my father when I see him. Having a realtionship with our cg, can be like a balancing act, but with practice we know how to ajust fine. Yet, on the flip side, being frozen when the cg is active in their addiction is really how we seperate from the addiction.
      Thinking of you often….
      Twilight"Forget what hurt you but never forget what it taught you."

    • #2127
      ell
      Participant

      ***** Twilight , it is so nice to see you on my thread . Thank you for your advice.
      “”””””””I seperate the addiction from my father and this allows me to show my love for my father when I see him””””””””
      That is Twilight my most difficult stage now for me. I try to separate them but it is difficult but I try.  I need to find my freedom, I need time but I think I will handle that stage too. It gives me hope that it exists a way to separate them. It gives me hope that you told me because your experience is huge.
      Thank you very much 
      You are in my thoughts
      Berber im thinking you a lot , keep walking you are doing so good….
      With all my love ell

    • #2128
      tootall
      Participant

      Hi Ell! I’m new to this site and have read your thread. I’m soo very proud of you for standing up to the addiction and fighting for what you believe in. You are truly amazing. Although the gambling addiction is very powerful, it seems to me that the bond of love and marriage that you and your husband share is no match. Hands down — you are both winners . although the scars are still present, they will fade. Wish you both luck

    • #2129
      ell
      Participant

      hello ..
      I miss the old site but life is changing and we can deal with the new site too . Need little time and we use to it.
      My cg is still free- he is still going to his mettings and he is comipment. we work too much but my update is that we came a liitle closer . We are not just polite .
      Velvet i told him that i love him! That was when the ice broke.
      I felt woman again. I felt relieved.
      We are more free now , and we laugh easily .Im not saying that we dont struggle but we struggle and smiling too. I think that is a positive think . He told me that im a very very close person when someone hurt me but he is still here to make me open again .
      He is now almost i year when i learn the truth …and i think that we made some good steps …the next year will be better.

    • #2130
      adele
      Participant

      my update

      Permalink Submitted by ell on Fri, 09/27/2013 – 11:57

      hello ..

      I miss the old site but life is changing and we can deal with the new site too . Need little time and we use to it.

      My cg is still free- he is still going to his mettings and he is comipment. we work too much but my update is that we came a liitle closer . We are not just polite .

      Velvet i told him that i love him! That was when the ice broke.

      I felt woman again. I felt relieved.

      We are more free now , and we laugh easily .Im not saying that we dont struggle but we struggle and smiling too. I think that is a positive think . He told me that im a very very close person when someone hurt me but he is still here to make me open again .

      He is now almost i year when i learn the truth …and i think that we made some good steps …the next year will be better.

    • #2131
      adele
      Participant

      Dear Ell,

      I know this is something you have been so afraid of not being able to find again with your wonderful husband.

      You both have worked so very hard, and you share such a deep love for one another. So now, finally, you can laugh and love and begin to really enjoy your busy, beautiful life! You have made me smile once again.

      French author Albert Camus said, “There is scarcely any passion without struggle.”

      Adele

    • #2132
      velvet
      Moderator

      Dear Ell

      I wrote you a long post and then I I didn’t post it but I am glad that I did not. You have written again and you have made your leap of faith. You had been afraid to look past the shadow and now you have. We can’t make the shadows disappear but we can look for the light and you have.

      Look at the difference those three little words have made Ell and imagine how much more joy will come as you both say them again and again.

      Forgetfulness, not in the sense of repressed memory but in the sense of deliberately refusing to allow the past to ruin your life, is a perfectly respectable and often efficient way of achieving mental equilibrium.

      I believe that those who love active CGs do not think further than the day they stop gambling, indeed, I was told, by a counsellor when my CG went into recovery that I did not need support anymore. Personally I believe you need immense support in the early days until a balance is reached and that is where you are.

      This support is vastly different to the support an F&F member ***** when living with an active CG , when looking for the light often leads to denial of the addiction – you are 100% aware Ell. Your husband has been living gamble-free and what is more his behaviour has been that of a loving husband and in my opinion he deserves to be loved.

      Will next year be better? Oh I think so and I will look forward to hearing how you both a progressing.

      Let go of the fear of failure. Whenever you feel anxious stop what you are doing and slowly bring your hand to your heart area. Let it rest there gently for two breaths; notice how you begin to feel more confident. You can, of course, always write on our new forum which is having a few problems but is still, at the core, the same caring place to be.

      Fantastic post Ell

      V

    • #2133
      ell
      Participant

      adele thank you so much for your kind words and of cousre i want to tell you that you are “something else” you are amazing with all the help here with the forum ….thank you a lot …..
      Velvet so nice to see you on my tread ..yes you are so right i try to leave the fear “a little” . I think that i will find someday the feeling to be friendly with all of this..that is happening.
      I suppose im giving the space-peace that my relationship need . I m letting free my feelings and that is something i feel good now .(i hope that i m making the right choise) In my mind is always the if” , If something wrong happens again?? ….well if happens then i think know how to protect me and my daughter (that is something that you teaching me very good). This is our chance in our marriage …i hope that we will get out stonger and winners . He deserve the second chance so do I. it is difficult to find the real balance in a relationship after all that (it is not my friend he is my hb so its difficult) …. because i need a relationship real with feelings i dont want someone just to be with me in the same house . But he doesnt want that too(he said) . He needs the same thing he needs all the feelings the love adn the truth that our relatioship can has. I dont want to sound velvet too hard but i dont want v something in the middle …
      every day i try we try to let the feelings free and find the new balance . The good thing is that the feelings excists ..
      with all my love ……….
      ell

    • #2134
      berber
      Participant

      Well done dear Ell. I understand the feeling of fear ‘what IF it happens again?’… I too am struggling with it. But my husband and I tell each other daily that we love eachother – it helps me to reconnect. I’ll write again soon on my own thread, for now : FILAKIA! XXX B.

    • #2135
      ell
      Participant

      Thank you berber for your kind words i hope your pregnancy goes well with no no no no problems !!!!! God be with you all the time .
      question: LIVE ADVISE HELP LINE is Green now and OPEN .
      and i ckick on it “join” and the message is “”you are in quene position waiting to join us ” Recources ot Forums .
      and i can not goin the leve help .
      If the begin time pass they cannot accept persons in the groups ??what happens i cannot understand, if someone knows what im doing wrongly. I can never join a group or unmodereted or F&F nothing.
      Anyway if i cannot do it i just keep the forums.
      al my love to everyone

    • #2136
      velvet
      Moderator

      Dear Ell

      For a trial period groups have to be entered within the first 15 minutes of the start time. I know this is difficult for you as you call from work and you have to contact when you can.

      Berber often pops in on a Tuesday and I know you would like to talk to her in real time. If it is possible for you, please click on Live Advice Help Line between 20.00 and 21.15 UK time tomorrow and hopefully you might find her – you will certainly find me.

      I hope this answers you but if it doesn’t please write again – there is work being done all the time to improve the site.

      You don’t sound hard dear Ell and I understand you not wanting a relationship somewhere down the middle. All relationships go up and down and sometimes there has to be a middle bit – as long as the feeling still exist there has to be hope.

      I hope to talk to you in real time soon

      V

    • #2137
      ell
      Participant

      velvet hello and thank you very much for your answer, when i see you on my thread i m just happy.
      I have another question and i need to fix it because im in a difficult position a little .
      I didnt know that when someone give a relpy to you all the answer goes to our e mail address too with all the answer not like a comment . Here at my work i can have only this email i have now i cannot open new but some people here somotimes have access to my mail and i dont want to . It is possible with the new site to stop the replies at my mail ????
      thank you very very much
      with all my love to all and to you cvelvet
      ell

    • #2138
      velvet
      Moderator

      Dear Ell

      In the box under the comment box never forget to click on the box saying ‘Notify me when new comments are posted’. The tick will disappear and the only replies will be in the forum.

    • #2139
      ell
      Participant

      I click on reply and the box Notify me when ….it is untick so i tick it and i sent the post

    • #2140
      Dunc
      Keymaster

      so the Notify me box was unticked ? if you ticked it you should get an email. if its unticked you shouldn’t. if you do ill need to delve deeper into this

    • #2141
      ell
      Participant

      yes harry a email came from you replie in my thread .
      so now
      i click on reply and i untik the box “notify when….”Now it is untick the box
      i click save and sent the post . please answer me to see if i will receive a mail
      thank you ell

    • #2142
      Dunc
      Keymaster

      Hopefully you shouldnt get an email for this reply

    • #2143
      ell
      Participant

      sorry harry i get an email for this reply too .
      what ever i click i have an email ..
      .i dont know whta is happening .
      I just keep that the devellopers knows my problem as you
      im sending you the replies as you told me .
      the only thing now is that i can log in correctly and i can post . the developpers will tell you about this and the great britain too.
      thank you harry very much for your help and the developpers too .

    • #2144
      Dunc
      Keymaster

      Hi Ell

      I’ll get this sorted as soon as possible. … sorry for all the inconvenience

      Harry

    • #2145
      ell
      Participant

      test

    • #2146
      ell
      Participant

      hello all
      harry i want to tell you that i still have problems with the ryplies on my email adreess i dont know if something new was said by the devellopers .
      Today there is another problem NEW.. ..
      im in the site
      i click choose the lunguage and i choose english
      i click log in and put my password
      and automatically the site select the lunguage “ελληνικά”
      i choose again the english and i clik to edit on my profile and that is not working …the window with my profine in english doesnt work …automaticallu opens only on greek …
      i dont know whta is happening and if because i was locked with great britain trhe other day the developpers did something on my profile … i can not see my profile and edit something …
      i hope that it will be ok
      thank you for your time
      with all my love ell

    • #2147
      ell
      Participant

      hello all
      harry i want to tell you that i still have problems with the ryplies on my email adreess i dont know if something new was said by the devellopers .
      Today there is another problem NEW.. ..
      im in the site
      i click choose the lunguage and i choose english
      i click log in and put my password
      and automatically the site select the lunguage “ελληνικά”
      i choose again the english and i clik to edit on my profile and that is not working …the window with my profine in english doesnt work …automaticallu opens only on greek …
      i dont know whta is happening and if because i was locked with great britain trhe other day the developpers did something on my profile … i can not see my profile and edit something …
      i hope that it will be ok
      thank you for your time
      with all my love ell

    • #2148
      Dunc
      Keymaster

      Hi Ell,
      Ive had a look at your profile, your language is set at English. The developers have been working on your profile so the issue may have been sorted

      Take Care

      Harry

    • #2149
      velvet
      Moderator

      Dear Ell

      Are things ok with you now?

      It is a pity that your concerns with the new site have somewhat taken over from talking about your recovery.

      I hope you are still giving your feelings freedom and that your husband gamble-free days are flourishing with his lovely Ell.

      I hope to hear from you soon and even better to see you in a group.

      As Ever

      V

    • #2150
      ell
      Participant

      Hello my dear and lovely velvet
      I’m here, every day I read the site ,except from this weekend because we had a weekend here – national celebration that is why I haven’t answered I was with my daughter all the weekend.
      Well my update:
      I think you know the turtle????? . That is my cg and I. Our steps are almost like a turtle …slowly. Yes my dear velvet he is still gamble free and his commitment it is only his family and of course the debts.
      He said that I’m a rock and that helped him so much to get his life normal again. He was thinking that after something so wrong he couldn’t succeed again. He is full of light now and he believes not that we can do it. …….. But that we are doing it. …
      He told me that he was confused at the beginning … everything was a mountain in front of him and it helped him when I told him :
      “”do you trust me??? if you do then follow me with no questions and the time to understand why some things happened or happens will come …just follow
      The first priority was only not to gamble, not to have split in his recovery, the early recovery that you taught me velvet …and then the recovery starts…
      Now after a year he said that he can understand why I was pushing him so much, not to stop the counseling when he thought that he is ok or why I was so direct with him all the time with not even a small break. Everything has a meaning I told him.
      He told me that now he can understand how much he hurt me and he is so proud for me because I found the power to help him to save himself. He thinks that it is very difficult to find a way to help someone when you are hurt and that I was there for him to guide him.
      I told him that you wanted to save yourself that is why you listen and you still listening. I told him that I believe that he is not mature yet and he needs time to feel that he can stands only in his legs … I told him that you wanted to listen so that worked with me , I was struggling but i was staying because I was seeing your improvement . If I was talking in a wall I think my love that we would be separate now…
      And in that point he said to me: “”yes I know you so well my love…Because you cannot accept the same mistake for second time …I know you so well ….believe me””
      I smiled…
      We are together velvet. I’m trying every day to let my feelings free. The feelings are here but we need time. We have our hands together but I cannot be the wife that ok now we are all day hugs kisses sex and that’s it . I cannot do it that velvet sorry, I need more time. I know that I want him so much but I need time for all of this … We have nt got love life and now I can say that we have “something “. He is with me in this …and I am with him.
      If he is in the right way I realize that I can do it …
      As for me.. I think that im more calm now , im giving him some more trust in daily things , and of course im giving him the space to think how we can do the payments for the debts , what to pay fist what second and what day ?and he keeps the dates because he wants to be on time.
      I feel velvet like a “teacher” and sometimes im tired but when I see his improvement something happens inside me and feel good again. Ups and down …
      Now in November is our second anniversary at 10th and at 23 th of November my baby has her second birthday. Last year November was the worst month of my life …
      This month I think that it will be easier ….I don’t need gifts ….i don’t need surprises I just need stability …nothing more than this …
      Im a turtle …my steps are slowly , I sometimes feel guilty for this but I m trying to open and leave free again , but I know that a year with 365 days it is not enough , I /we need more.
      There are days that I want cry and cry and cry , I want the pain to go away , sometimes the sentence “” needed time “” it is difficult for me , sometimes I becoming so impatient….and that is the time I struggle….
      That is how my life is going …
      I feel calmer, but I need time to re-open myself again, I need the pain and the fear to go away …. I need to come the time when I will feel that I want to burn all the pages of my story …because that time I will be totally free…
      When he looks me in the eyes now he has his self confidence …I can feel it ……he thinks that he needs me in his recovery …but I know that he doesn’t any more ….he knows the rules of this game and he knows how he can win at the end …he just cannot believe that he did it …he thinks that I did it for him …
      Ohhh sorry for the length I just saw what I wrote …
      I’m taking big breaths and go on ….
      I’m so happy to have so good friends in here.
      With all my love
      Ell

    • #2151
      adele
      Participant

      Dear Dear Ell,

      You have just written such a powerful post!

      From the first day I found this site you captured my heart, amazed me with your ability to articulate your feelings so clearly in a foreign language (to you), and you opened my eyes so many times with the way you carefully consider (and many times struggle with) the knowledge and advice given by Velvet (and others) and then extract and embrace that which you feel will move you forward in your recovery.

      You are truly an inspiration to me Ell and I am so pleased with (and encouraged by) your progress for you and your family. I admire you for appreciating the positive changes in you and your husband while understanding that more time is needed to get where you want to be.

      This November is shaping up to be a much happier one for me too! Sincere congratulations on your anniversary (because I’m sure, like me, you weren’t certain you would make it), and a very Happy 2nd Birthday to sweet little Baby Ell!

      Adele

    • #2152
      monique
      Participant

      Hi Ell
      I am glad to see that you are finding it easier to use the forum now and also happy to read such a great post from you.

      I want to wish you a Very Happy November – the whole month and especially your anniversary and your little one’s birthday.

      As Adele says, you are truly an inspiration and you deserve much joy.

      Best wishes,

      Monique

    • #2153
      ell
      Participant

      Adele thank you very much for your reply and your warm wishes.
      I know that we are in a difficult situation but that is life Adele , life we don’t know what will bring us but on the other side the same life help us to find the power to stand up again and again and again .. You are doing so good adele and the counseling you are going too it will help you too .You now so much for the addiction now. You are in the right way and I love your kindness I admire it . Im so happy for you that November will be a nice month for you too and I hope for all of us peace in our lives.

      My lovely Monique
      When I see you in my thread I feel so so good because I remember my first day in here and you where here for me every time . You are in my prayers Monique . I hope that your son will feel that inside him has the power to stop and change some things in his life. You are a rock Monique and I wish you the best to you and your family .
      With all my love to all ell

    • #2154
      ell
      Participant

      hello all my good friends
      after my update i wrote 2 days ago and the warm answers i had…i would like to share something good for me …
      6 months now i try to take a huge huge huge project here in my country …..and yesterday the other company call us and told us that they want to do the project with us …and they will sign with us . I hope it will happen !!!!!!!
      i have a big smile on my face but i want the signatures to be safe . My cg is the most imprortant person for this project without him things would be difficult …he is so happy . …
      my wish is that they will sign …..
      i wanted to share with all you my friends
      with all my love ell

    • #2155
      velvet
      Moderator

      Dear Ell
      It is my wish that they sign too. Both of you deserve reward for all the hard work you have put into your business.
      Without your CG the project would have been more difficult, without his Ell your CG would have been struggling to raise his head with dignity. This position you have found yourselves in has taken two of you and I thank you for sharing it with us.
      Please let us know as soon as the signatures are safe so I can breathe out.
      V

    • #2156
      ell
      Participant

      Thank you my dear velvet very much and monique for your warm wishes.
      As i wrote to you v i m a turtle in my relationship with my cg …but thanks god we are not in the jobs .

      velvet i hope that you read my answer to you with the update when you asked me , hope that you saw it ???
      thank you very muchhhhhhh

    • #2157
      monique
      Participant

      Hello Ell
      That is good news indeed. My very good wishes to you and your husband in your work life and on a personal level.

      Monique

    • #2158
      Dunc
      Keymaster

      Hi Ell

      It all sounds so exciting, everything is looking rosy and I like the others I congratulate you on your forthcoming project.

      Ell, I have to ask and I’m truly sorry if you feel I’m putting a dampener on this. You wrote taking on a “Huge Huge Huge Project” you didn’t mention money but with most projects the rewards are going to be financial & the project being huge may carry unknown stresses.

      It sounds like your CG is doing great as are you, but is this the first real chance for him to prove he has the ability to see this through, is this the first test of potential stress he may have seen for a while … is this the first project that may make a financial difference to you both

      Ell i must reiterate I’m by no means trying to bring you down, I’m just being practical. A gambler in recovery will be learning new coping skills every day, but some skills we only learn when something new happens and in your words when something “Huge” comes along

      It sounds very much like your husband is the key to this project, is that going to increase his stress levels, are their financial rewards that may be too much for him to handle this quick after leaving rehab,… have you talked about how this project may affect him and how his addiction is still there; all be it suppressed. Have you looked at ways of securing the situation financially and ways of him relieving his stress in a positive manner.

      Ell I’m so pleased for you both, but if I didn’t voice my concerns, then I’d be doing you an injustice

      Take Care

      Harry

    • #2159
      ell
      Participant

      a

    • #2160
      ell
      Participant

      Hello harry
      Thank you very much for your post on my thread. You don’t imagine how much I appreciate your concerns. Thank you again and again.
      That project is not something new for my cg s life. He is always works on similar projects here in our country and abroad and for very famous brands.
      The deference is that now the project belongs to one of my own businesses. That is nothing to do with him .No money in his pocket. We will all work for this but money the company will see after 2 years, so nothing change in his life. It is a project a sale that made by my business. He will be the developer in something with no no stress for him. He will be a key for this project(because I don’t want to hire someone else and pay- we have crises in here ) but it is nothing difficult for him .He is doing it every day for the company which works . The difference now is that he will do it for his wife s company. He has already fixed it so many times.
      He will not see money in his pocket , and it is not something strange to him .No stress for him . The stress is on me because a project is not just the developer job it is much much more for a client to be happy. He is doing it every day for the company which works. The difference now is that he will do it for his wife company.
      The project yes is huge but the money is something that will come on future and because here in my country we have crises it will be oxygen for the company to survive , not money to be rich in our personal lives .
      For my company this project is huge . For another company maybe is nothing for me is huge .
      Harry thank you very very much much for your post .
      Im learning so much from you.
      With all my love ell

    • #2161
      ell
      Participant

      Hello my dear velvet ,

      I hope that you read my update on 29/10/2013 .

      If you can read it and tell me if you suggest something more ??? Your opinion is very important for me.

      Sorry for asking it I know that your time is precious but if you can I would be grateful .

      With all my love ell

    • #2162
      velvet
      Moderator

      Dear Ell

      I have always time for you. I will reply over the weekend.

      V

    • #2163
      velvet
      Moderator

      Dear Ell
      “Carried away by our worries, we’re unable to live fully and happily in the present. Deep down we believe we can’t really be happy yet – that we still have a few more boxes to check off before we can really enjoy life”.

      You have indeed been a fine teacher and you have taught your husband so much – but how do you let go and enjoy ‘your’ recovery. You have gained so much knowledge of the addiction to gamble and with this has come greater understanding; with greater understanding will come recovery. These are steps to your recovery Ell – they are not the end product.

      You have been the most patient member, you have listened to everything that has been said to you and then you have taken than knowledge and you have given it to your husband in a way that he could understand. I think you have given him so much of yourself that you are feeling a little empty. The time has come for you to give yourself the care and attention that you deserve

      We talk about CG ‘recovery, but a CG does not recover – they will always be CGs. They have to confront their addiction every day and control it for the rest of their lives. It is your husband’s acceptance of his addiction and his determination never to return to the dark abyss where gambling took him, that can give ‘you’ the ability to let go and live in the present. I know that he doesn’t ‘need’ you to make his gamble-free life possible but I am sure that because you are there it is easier. That is his life though. Your recovery is different and I think that when a couple go on together, having had this addiction in their lives, the one who loves the CG will take longer to ‘recover’ but unlike the CG they can do so.

      It is no secret Ell that my CG is my son and as such the physical expression of sexual love plays no part in our relationship. I have taken longer, therefore, to reply to you because of this.

      Sensuality between a couple can all too easily be snuffed out by daily routine. You have taken time out before from your busy life and re-found your feelings for each other. Have a meal together where you look into each other’s eyes as opposed to working and chatting side by side, dance together and lose yourselves in music. Learn to trust your own emotions.

      Sensual exchanges charged with the history of the addiction to gamble are more difficult and here I know I am without knowledge. What I do know is that joy doesn’t simply happen to us Ell. We have to choose joy and keep choosing it every day.

      I cannot give you a time or a date when I could have said ‘today I have recovered’, but I am truly recovered. In my opinion, the first year following any unhappy disturbance in our lives is the most difficult. There were days and nights when I cried even though recovery had started. If I gave in to memory I would cry again but I choose joy and I choose it every day.

      Put all guilt behind you, there is nothing to feel guilty about. You know you love your husband and you know he loves you. You have a wonderful opportunity soon to reaffirm your love for each other when you reach you second anniversary.

      Dear Ell, I am not sure I am doing your concerns justice but I feel I must send this post because I said I would write to you this weekend and the weekend is drawing to a close.

      The next page of your story is, as yet, unwritten, it is a blank page and each moment will be completely new. I cannot tell you what to do but I will keep walking with you as you turn your page. Your husband is enjoying his freedom and he trusts you which is great – now you have to learn to trust yourself.

      Please talk to me soon

      V

    • #2164
      ell
      Participant

      Thank you dear velvet for your answer so much,
      When you write on my thread I have food for my mind for days. You are always giving me something new to look for.
      Things like: inside me yes I feel a little empty or the sensuality yes I feel that is a difficult chapter to me as a couple but not because I don’t want my hb or how can I start to enjoy my recovery?
      All that you wrote me yes velvet I agree with you that are things that I have to work inside me ….
      But the difficulty is how??? And of course the answer is time “needed”!
      It is very helpful for me when you saw me the road and I will try to walk to that road,
      What iF am like a turtle??? At the end I know that the turtle will win something.
      Thank you velvet so much, your answers means a lot to me !
      With all my love
      ell

    • #2165
      velvet
      Moderator

      Dear Ell
      You are a lovely turtle and you will get there in the end – you are further along that path than you realise already.
      Even reading between your lines I can see purpose and strength.
      Q How do I know that this particular little turtle will get there?
      A I look at how far you have come and how you have grown.
      Thinking about you
      V

    • #2166
      ell
      Participant

      you are incredιble velvet . when you pop up on my thread you give me so much strength and you blossom my confidnce to just keep going on the right path .
      you are something else my lovely velvet
      with all my love
      ell the turtle

    • #2167
      madge456
      Participant

      I read Velvet’s last long post to Ell with interest – as usual – I found things that resonated with me.

      Not having thoroughly read all your posts Ell I still feel a connection with you from what Velvet said

      “It is your husband’s acceptance of his addiction and his determination never to return to the dark abyss where gambling took him, that can give ‘you’ the ability to let go and live in the present.”
      Wow – that is powerful. My cg said something like this to me this morning – I don’t remember the actual wording (i think I was too shocked!) but it was along the lines of “you will be able to trust me when I get to a place where doing what I have done in the past becomes abhorrent to me” to which I replied “like putting your hand in a blender?” and he said, “Yes, like putting my hand in a blender”.
      So, this gives me hope – and knowing you have made so much progress gives me hope. So turtle or no turtle, as long as you move forward, it doesn’t matter when you arrive.
      Progress, just progress…at your own pace.
      With love
      xoxo
      M

    • #2168
      velvet
      Moderator

      Dear Turtle

      The traces in the sand tell me that you do return to these pages occasionally and so for the next time you do, I want there to be a message at this special time of the year.

      I wish you, your husband and your daughter all the joy of Christmas and hope that this year it will be a time of great warmth in your home.

      I know that with the amazing strength and purpose you apply to your life you will be working hard, trying to make everything good for everybody else. Please remember yourself and give you the gift of peace.

      I will be saying the Serenity prayer out loud at 10.00 hours UK time on Christmas Day and my thoughts will be with you.

      I hope to hear from you.

      V

    • #2169
      ell
      Participant

      Hello velvet
      Thank you very much for your warm wishes.
      Well now it is my second Christmas here in GT site. Sometimes Christmas are difficult.
      I couldn’t have made it without you velvet. I read the site almost every day but I don’t know what to write. But I cannot stop reading and learning from you and all of course.
      Yesterday I was crying velvet because I went out , I left from my work for some hours and bought presents , clothes , for my daughter (only for her). Ι spent money for my daughter , I own her this year to find present under the Christmas tree. I know that the money could go for a dept easily but I choose to take something for my daughter this year. Of course my hb wants it too.
      My hb is still free. Yesterday I had a feedback from the counselor and he told me that my cg now is more mature and he is still free and he wanted to say me(the counselor) “”thank you for your attitude eli “”he told me that my attitude was the key for my cg. I believe that my cg will now know how to protect himself.
      Im here with him and we still try to open ourselves. When I try to remember the last christmas I cry immediately . Last christmas was very hard for me .
      I think now that I can breathe. I think now that he can breathe too. We are going to sit home under the tree and play with our daughter and help her to open her presents . I think that are her moments now and I want to live with her , these moments . I make a promise to myself that this month is my daughter month and I will live it with joy .
      I know that without velvet I couldn’t have made anything . I wish you , from my heart the best wishes to you and your family . Love and health to you and your family .You are so special woman velvet and I hope all your dreams come true.
      As for me I still walk like a turtle… my cg is waiting for me to reopen my feelings , I think he is ready but I think that I walk slowly . But I don’t care because now I can breathe , I think that the moment that I will be free (totally free) it will come for me too.
      Thank you velvet so much!! You are a special woman and I will be with you at the serenity prayer at Christmas .
      With all my heart and love and my best wishes to all my friends here monique-jenny-looby loo-no more-twilight -berber-sosad-adele-madge-san-denise-james -janey-harry i wish you health and strenght and thank you all for helping me.
      with al my love
      Ell

    • #2170
      monique
      Participant

      Hello Ell
      That is a lovely post. I wish you and your little family all good things at this time.
      You are in a different place this year. It is not ‘perfect’, but it does not have to be! You may think things move slowly (like the turtle), but the important thing is that you are all moving in the right direction.
      I am glad you can breathe – breathing is good, in fact it is also essential.
      Best wishes,

      Monique

    • #2171
      jenny46
      Participant

      The thought of you waddling around like a turtle makes me smile.

      Turtles on land walk with a calmness and with purpose, focused on where they are going and why, so you have given a good description of yourself in many ways through comparing yourself to a turtle.

      You no longer hide in your shell and my wishes for you are to see you enter the water, no longer weighed down by the heaviness in that shell and take on the same grace as you swim.

      There may be a void in your physical relaitionship but the point is that you want to cross it. But like the turtle again you cannot be hurried, it will be in your time.

      I have to say though if I ever see you laying eggs in the sand I would be a little worried if not greatly amused !!

      Best wishes to you and your family

      Jenny x

    • #2172
      ell
      Participant

      Monique thank you very much for your so warm wishes .
      From my heart I hope this year to bring you peace in your life and your family .
      May all your dreams come true .
      Thank you for all your support you are giving me …You are a special mother Monique and im learning so much from you.

      Jenny im so glad to see you on my thread and see your posts to others too!!
      Thank you a lot for your post and your support!! You are right my dear friend im not hiding all the time in my shell, I breathe but sometimes still hiding but I work on this …
      Im so glad that I made you smile with the turtle lolololol
      Im sending you all my best wishes to you and your family, I admire your wisdom jenny .
      With all my love ell
      My best wishes from my heart

    • #2173
      twilight16
      Participant

      Hi Ell,
      You are such a sweet person, thank you for your kind words. I admire your strength, honesty and continual support to many here. You have a candid way of reminding people of their strengths when they may have forgotten.
      Ell, the greatest gift you have not only given yourself but your family is your recovery. It is priceless and will continue to guide you in life and whatever comes your way. I believe if you remember this nothing in your life will ever be too hard for you to overcome.
      I hope you take a moment and see how far you have come yet in your struggles while keeping the true sweet Ell alive. Have a blessed Christmas with your daughter and husband. I’m so happy that he has been doing so well in his recovery.
      Much love to you,
      Twilight

    • #2174
      velvet
      Moderator

      Dear Ell
      You can let the memory of Christmas 2012 go now – from now on your memory can be this Christmas and on this Christmas your lovely little girl had presents under the tree – but more importantly she had her mother and her father there with her, loving her and each other.
      Of course I have no crystal ball but I can see in my mind’s eye a little family united in love and I could wish for no better vision.
      ‘You’ have made your joy possible Ell, you have created the home in which your little girl is safe and happy and your husband is blossoming. I listened to you but you did all the work. Your husband has had to work hard too and I am glad he has had a counsellor who allowed him to mature. It is a fact that when a family support a CG it makes the recovery more likely to succeed and you have done that. You have been frightened but you held fast, you showed bravery when you didn’t feel it and you didn’t give up when you felt crushed. I understand all those things Ell.
      I send all good wishes to you, your husband, your little girl, your very special brother, your mum and all the other people I have come to ‘know’ through you. It has been a pleasure.
      με αγάπη – όπως πάντα
      V

    • #2175
      ell
      Participant

      my lovely velvet thank you so much …
      well today was a differnet day …..special different day for me!
      here in greece we have crises and my mum is a widow and his pention fell at 300 eyros so things are difficult but my brother and i every month take care very good our mum.She is our priority . my mum everyday keeps my brother s boys and she is so tired because we all work until night (for years) and she keeps the boys from 09 morning to 23:00 evening . Too much hours in her age .But today we talked on the phone and i told her that tomorrow night in my home we will have the dinner and she told me no i can not come i m so tired my hair are bla bla bla..i dont have nothing to wear …
      and of course it is true she has not bought anything for herself for a long long time …..
      so the santa came for my mum today …. my cg took me and we bought her clothes and shoes and we gave her and she was like a small child laughing with joy for her presents and crying becouse we are thinking of her …
      my brother gave her what ever she wants for bying the presents for her grand children and she was so happy.
      So my day today is for my mum and im so happy for her …
      thank you velvet and yes i want this christmas to remember from now on …
      i wish you all my best wishes to your family and a happy new year. You are in a special place in my heart velvet , you are a special woman .
      I hope here to all my friends that 2014 will pring peace in our hearts and in our families .
      wiht all my best wishes for the new year .
      ell

    • #2176
      velvet
      Moderator

      Dear Ell
      I am sure you are still returning here at times and so I am leaving this little note for you to find when you pop in.
      Your Christmas story was lovely and described a complete family unit supporting each other through difficult times and part of that family was your CG.
      You have been the most wonderful support for your husband and all the happiness you are feeling is deserved. It isn’t possible that every story will have an outcome such as yours because it takes at least two people to make it work. You supported without enablement, you stood your ground and you refused the addiction control of your life. Your CG knew that your determination was not made up of idle words – he could have taken the easy route and allowed his addiction to carry on unabated but he didn’t.
      You didn’t stop him gambling but you did make a difference. So when you pop back I want you to know that I still think about you very much – you were brave when you didn’t want to be and I know how hard that is.
      You knew the right thing to do; the hard bit was doing it – but you didn’t give in.
      με αγάπη για εσάς, το σύζυγό σας και την οικογένειά σας
      Velvet

    • #2177
      ell
      Participant

      hello my dear velvet ,
      i missed you so much .
      I saw your post from the day you wrote it , i can not finish a day without visit the site . I think I m not ready yet .
      I will send you my update . Im at work and I have really problems and I run .
      My cg is ok , he is free with his counselor and he is so so free now .
      I will write you all my update ..
      With all my love velvet
      Ell
      Ps for velvet :(the signatures for the project fell )

    • #2178
      berber
      Participant

      Hi Ell!

      Hope YOU are doing at least as OK as your husband. I too visit this website a lot still, and it helps to read the lovely posts.
      Filakia and thinking of you!
      X
      B.

    • #2179
      ell
      Participant

      Hello
      My update …
      Eventually every day is different from yesterday. My mind matures every day from the addiction and I catch myself to reconsider many things. (From the good side) Things that was so important for me on year ago ..Today is not .But I had to pass through all… the chapters and grow up like a baby.
      Why im writing this? What happened ?
      Is because today I read all my posts from the first day I wrote here. I read my story. I had not read my thread until now.
      Why I did that?
      I don’t know. I just felt the need.
      My cg is gamble free. He has his counselor every week. He is gamble free from the day he said it. His behavior is mature now he is free from many things. He works a lot. He is in the family with me and our baby . He is accountable now . But he had the power to pass over the addiction and stand up .
      If you ask me if he was difficult for him ? I will say to you what he said to me :
      “””No it is not difficult in my mind to handle not gamble again and im proving to myself every day . I m free until now and I will try to be for my rest of my life. I know what is right and wrong. No it is not difficult to understand a counselor telling me my wrong things with my behavior and just give the solution .I can listen . I did a big mistake with the gamble and i hurt you but I know that this is past for me. The difficult thing for me is not the gamble but to earn your trust again .i m here and always be here . Im not a “nothing” I know what I did now, im sorry , im here with all my energy and with acts that you can see . But im not going to be in my all life from now on answerable from everything wrong …. The day that the debts will finish will come and I want to be together with piece . The hard things in my life is not the gamble for me even you can not believe it The hard thing for me is to earn you trust again . The sock that you gave me and your attitude was the key. But now I need to let my self free.”””
      Velvet if you can see it , im very happy and proud inside me(not outside) because he is the man I know now . He is strong now with confidence and of course he has all the knowledge to protect himself . From the first day he believed that he was a “nothing “ and now after all the kilometers he respect him self .
      I know that he still is more immature and I know that there a lot of things that he can not realize or understand that I did or still do for a purpose .we are still in progresss…. He now is more accountable and he has his confidence and his acts are right .
      As for me .. im a little tired . The But and the if is in a box in my mind. I don’t know if ever will go but I try to keep it in there. And of course im trying to let myself a little free and trust again.
      The difficult for me is that I want a good healthy relationship not something in the middle. I think that someday I will be totally free.
      With all my love ell

    • #2180
      ell
      Participant

      .

    • #2181
      monique
      Participant

      I hope we can talk another time about those feelings.

      Meanwhile, all good wishes,

      Monique

    • #2182
      velvet
      Moderator

      Dear Ell
      Your feeling of tiredness is totally understandable. You are working long hours; you have a child to care for and on top of all that you are still awakening from a long nightmare and finding your world a little confusing.
      I hope it will help you to know that I do know very well other couples who struggled as you have done but who are living without the ‘if’s and ‘buts’ and I had someone tell me the other day that they would trust their CG friend, who is controlling his addiction, above anybody else.
      My suggestion would be to make the box in your mind as small as possible so that you can tuck it away into the part of your brain that has dealt with any problems in the past.. One day Ell you will perhaps look for that box and find it is gone or maybe you will never look and you will have to take my word that it will have disappeared.
      Don’t be afraid of the feelings you have or why you re-read your thread. You are re-building and probably wanted to check the foundations and I don’t blame you. You believed you had a wonderful relationship and then your dreams were dashed – it is hard to start again, harder than the when you first started your relationship from nothing. You have a history now that was (and is) unwelcome for both of you. Only you can know how much you love your husband and how much you want your marriage to work. I don’t think you should settle for a relationship ‘in the middle’ and I know I keep saying that only time will give you your answers but that is what I believe.
      I believe it is normal to resent a little that a CG ‘appears’ to have a confidence and self-assuredness more quickly perhaps than the F&F had thought possible but in spite of this I believe the CGs recovery is far harder. In my opinion that is the way it will happen – F&F hold back longer wanting more reassurance, often more than the CG can give. There are many things probably that you husband will never know or realise that you did and that you are still doing. I believe it is probably true of so many couples Ell that one is emotionally stronger than the other but this does not make a couple unbalanced because there is more to a relationship than emotional equality. Your husband is showing great strength in other ways.
      Ell if there is things you want to talk about more deeply please try and pop back into a group. I have an hour now on Thursdays between 210-2200 hours UK time and I have missed you.
      Με αγάπη
      V

    • #2183
      madge456
      Participant

      Just wanted to say i read your thread and hope you have been staying strong for yourself. It is indeed a hard road back, but you have been through so much – now you know the depth of your strength and ability to maintain yourself in the worst circumstances.

      I hope your CG continues to maintain his sobriety and that you have been giving yourself all the love and kindness you deserve. I am told things will settle **Im not sure how** but I have faith that they do..

      xoxo
      M

    • #2184
      berber
      Participant

      My friend! How are you, your daughter and your husband?

      I hope good. Your little girl must be growing a lot! My children are well, daughter so sweet and son hitting a new phase: almost two so time to rebel. Please know that I am thinking of you, it would be so nice to chat withyou again sometime. Maybe next week ? Filakia xxx B.

    • #2185
      sjb2014
      Participant

      I need someone to walk with me too… I recently drew the line after 20 years of marriage. My family destroyed by addiction. How has this happened. I gave everything I had. Paid for inpatient therapy 3 times… he left each time. Counseling…Dr spots for his depression..his suicide attempt… I love him still…but let the addiction take my 20 year marriage. I’m always looking for someone to say I did what’s right..did I?

    • #2186
      monique
      Participant

      Hello sjb. I clicked on your message and see that it is in the middle of another thread. It would be good to start your own thread so that your posts can be clearly seen and not risk getting ‘lost’ inside someone else’s. Then other members can reply directly to you and I’m sure you will find that very useful.

      I am a volunteer member of the Gambling Therapy Team. (I am the mother of a gambler and a qualified therapist.)

      I can see you have had a very tough and sad time and have finally ‘drawn the line’, as you put it. No one here would wish to tell you what choices to make – we will try to support you to make the best decisions for YOU and then keep on supporting you as you live with the impact. It is never easy to feel completely sure you have done the right thing, especially as you go through the sense of loss and grief, maybe anger too. But it sounds as if you did everything you could, gave all you had and finally needed to look after yourself. Most of us who love a gambler have had to learn that we cannot save the gambler, but we CAN look after ourselves and do our best to live our own lives well. The gambler must make his choices separately – and no matter how much we love him, he is ultimately responsible for his own life.
      I hope you will share more on a new thread of your own. Perhaps come into the ‘live’ support groups too.
      Best wishes,
      Monique

    • #2187
      monique
      Participant

      You have written on another thread about your little girl having health problems. So I know that it is your big priority now to sort that out, to care for her and get the right treatment for her. I am sorry that you have this concern right now. But I want to send you my good wishes for yourself and your little family.

      Monique

    • #2188
      velvet
      Moderator

      Hi sjb
      I hope you return to this thread as I cannot be sure that you are hearing from me.
      Please start you own thread so that we can offer you the support that you deserve. Click on the Friends and Family forum page and scroll to the bottom, click on ‘New Topic’ , give yourself a thread title in the Subject Box and write your post in the square marked ‘Body’. Click on ‘Save’ at the bottom and your post will appear in the forum where we can walk with you for as long as you want us to do so.
      I believe you will find your answer as knowledge comes with judgement free understanding and that is what we offer.
      Speak again soon
      Velvet

    • #2189
      ell
      Participant

      Hello all my friends
      Hello velvet ….
      I missed you. I read the forums not every day but I know I was up sent from writing …well I know that other friends here are now in difficult paths with the addictions and need help from the site that is so ashamed for me to write when everything goes fine..
      My update?
      Well I suppose that if someone read that my cg is ok free, he is in his family totally , working, accountable , loving with me and his child, he is still going to the counselor someone will think that :
      Ok el what else you want ??? Don’t be so hard …he is doing great and he is with you , he is trying so hard with me to manage all the wrongs things the addiction gave us.. (Debts-wrong behaviors)
      Well velvet I’m happy for that, I really am …and I love him and I know that he loves me too …
      Our last 3month period were running with my daughters health, she has problem with her thyroid and with cholesterol and triglycerides on high levels. She is so small but is hereditary. We are with good doctors and trying pills diets etc.
      My work ….well I’m so so tired, I’m in the red. I’m here from 10:00 until 23:00 every day and weekend .nothing change with my work, I’m running and have no other option. But the good thing is that I can see a light from all that work, I can see that the crises here will end. Need patience.
      As for me, I feel tired but I don’t ever give up I still try.
      The problem is deep deep inside me
      But deep inside me I cannot be totally free velvet . When I go to bed and only that time every night I keep wondering what if he gambles again what if he takes money without knowing? And from the other side I m thinking that I don’t want to know if he gambles or takes money I don’t want to know anything. That is why I’m not searching anything. I have all the bank accounts I’m giving him all the money he needs every day I see the receipts in the kitchen without asking for them. But I cannot calculate the receipts or see if he is say lies . I canot do it and I don’t want to do it . we decide together what we must pay or how we split the money . He just doesn’t have the pin for the accounts That is why I have all the if thoughts . Because now I’m not searching him . I don’t know if he will search something in the internet in his work I don’t know anything . We don’t talk about this .He doesn’t deserve when he is doing ok all the time speak for the addiction. Sometimes I look at him and ask him if we are still together in the same path and if he needs something to tell me but his answer is “ im not playing that is over and hope someday all the trauma will leave . Im here and trying my best . He is working so much and the money he brings are double from the 2 jobs and he feels so good because the debts are smaller now and he can dream what would you like to do after the debts finish ? an he is so optimistic … but he is so tired too. I can see it and he can see me how tired I am
      Now for the summer we said 15 days to take a break and go to our village for relax . nothing special , a little home bat with sea for the kid . And we were tring to finish the days and august go away , And yesterday we found out that a work came and we must be here all the summer with no no break. and I know that I will look inside me and the find the power to move on . But I need break …3 years in the same program every day is difficult. Anyway I don’t want to be pessimistic
      The only thing I want is to be inside me totally free and of course inside me I want to be fair with my cg .
      I know that outside im totally fair with my behavior, but I want me secrets thoughts to be free from the addiction and not unfair for him . I can not manage my thaughts. I don’t know if velvet you can understand me maybe im not write so well . In my thoughts I ask myself :”well ell when you will give him the pin and his account ? never? He is not asking you for nothing when you will give him trust .?never? He needs to see that you trust now . I cannot answer the questions deep inside me .
      I will write soon
      My wish is all of us we try and struggle with the addiction to have power and strength to move on .
      With all my love
      Ell

    • #2190
      monique
      Participant

      It is good to hear from you, Ell. But I am very struck by the sheer hard work you and you husband have been doing for so long and I feel the exhaustion in your post.

      Is there any way you can postpone the extra work and give yourselves the break/holiday you seem to need? No one can work all the time at this level. We make better decisions and work better, if we have times away from work and times to relax and do something completely different and restful. I don’t know all the details, but I just want to say, I really hope you can get a break, because I think you are both so tired now.

      When someone has an addiction, life is never what it was before the addiction took hold. It can be better, but it is not the same. Your mind cannot be the same, your trust cannot be the same. I wonder if you are pushing yourself too hard? Are you trying to be perfect on the inside and the outside? If you are supporting your husband and discussing financial decisions with him and living in peace together, you have made tremendous progress. I wonder if it is possible just to be more tolerant of your own ‘inner doubts’ – just acknowledge they are there, that they are natural because of where you have been and they may change one day, but don’t try to force it. Also, it is good to be always a bit vigilant, when there has been active addiction in your family.

      Maybe you long to be able to let your husband take the financial leadership; it might feel good if you could let go of it a bit – but perhaps this is not the right thing for your family and, if possible, it is better not to expect it. Maybe try to dwell on what you DO have and your achievements, rather than what is not possible for you.

      I know it is difficult; you have had – and still have – such a big struggle, but sometimes acceptance is the key to feeling more content.

      I hope this makes sense to you and does not sound critical. I really feel for you in your struggles, inside and outside and I want you to have a holiday and more time to relax. But I also want you to be at peace, even when things do not seem complete.

      Thinking of you.

      Monique

    • #2191
      velvet
      Moderator

      Dear Ell
      First of all I am glad to read that you have good doctors working for you, your wee daughter does not deserve such problems, I wish her well.
      Please don’t ever apologise for coming into the forum and saying that your husband is doing well. I do understand your feeling that maybe it is hard for those who are still living in the middle of an active addiction but I believe that it is important for those who struggle to hear that success is possible.
      I really do understand what you are saying – our worries always seem to be worse when we lay our heads down at night but I would be more concerned if you had written that you were searching for evidence of wrong doing.
      I think it is excellent that you both decide what you will pay and how you will split money – giving him the pin number is superfluous with such a terrific attitude – this, in my opinion, is two people really working a healthy recovery.
      I believe that there are many things in life that make us feel less free inside and maybe I am wrong but I think these are ‘our’ experiences and these and the way we cope, are what make us who we are – and you are coping terrifically.
      Dear Ell – when you lay down to sleep, think of a happy things that have enriched your life and try not to dwell on the bad, sad time of the addiction.
      It has been lovely to see you post again and I love the way you write your feelings down – you make so much sense. I look for you every Tuesday and I sometimes have someone else in the group hoping you will appear – I know you will know who.
      I hope you post again soon but until then.

      Με αγάπη

      Velvet

    • #2192
      ell
      Participant

      im at work as usually but i want to thank you so much for your replies ..
      both of you you are so right ….

      with all my love ell

    • #2193
      berber
      Participant

      Just want to wish your daughter well!
      My thoughts are with your family, I am proud of you Ell.

      XXX
      B.

    • #2194
      ell
      Participant

      hi velvet

      i was anxious , i get stressed ,for some minutes i was terrified and i asked him (skype)
      if he see porn all the time now ?
      he told me with all his love no and he is happy that i asked him because he doesnt want to hight my douts and my anxiety . (we dont have internet home only at work)
      velvet i feel alittle sorry for asking him but with the berbers post i felt the “””if”””ii my mind so so strong ..
      with love ell

    • #2195
      velvet
      Moderator

      Dear Ell
      I do believe that when an ‘if’ becomes as strong as your ‘if’ it is best to talk without accusing and hopefully the ‘if’ will disappear.
      I cannot tell you that the ‘if’ will not appear at different times in your life but when it does I think it would be good to re-read your thread and see this ‘if’ post – you will remember what worried you and how well you coped.
      Anxiety, stress and terror are not good for you or for your husband – now you have talked I hope you feel calm. Don’t let someone else’s disappointment with their relationship affect you – I know Berber would not want that. Never forget that your story is unique.
      Keep going as you are – your husband is doing well and so are you.
      V

    • #2196
      ell
      Participant

      Hello my dear friends,
      With all my best wishes , Happy New year and wish health and strength.
      Hello my dear and lovely velvet ,
      I wish you all the best to you and your family.
      Now was my 3rd Christmas , I remeber velvet that my fisrt christmas was so difficult , i was cooking for my family and noone knew what was happening in my life , i had in my pocket the serenity prayer that you gave me and some of your answers .You helped so musch . It was so so so difficult . But now christmas was so woderful with my hb and my daughter . We spent time together with walks presents santa etc. we went for 3 days holidays the 3 of us and we we were all happy .
      Time passes everything is better but i cannot forget .He is still free of gambling , But i think velvet that im very close to forgive , i think that the time helps me to forgive . I cannot forget all your help . I feel good and i have my self back . i still work hard nothing changed but i feel free in my heart and so so peace. I want you to know that im ok , i think i can deal with everything now , i think that i learned how to handle the situations . I wish you the best to you and your family … I miss you so much .
      Thank you very much for all your help and understanding .
      My best wishes to monique , berber ,jenny,janey,twilight,nomore,adele , i wish you the best to your families Happy new year .
      with all my love
      ell
      and of course keep going ……..

    • #2197
      monique
      Participant

      How good to hear from you and what a lovely message. So full of hope and peace. You have worked so hard within your family and helped make all this possible.

      All good wishes,

      Monique

    • #2198
      velvet
      Moderator

      Dear Ell
      What a terrific post – how good to hear from you.
      It is so hard to be patient and wait for time to bring healing but sadly it is only time that can heal some wounds. Forgiveness is very special and I don’t think any of us can determine the day we will feel it but I hope dear Ell when that day comes your circle of happiness will be complete.
      I am not sure it is right to forget because the experience was a large part of your life and it will have changed you. Taking something that is bad and turning it into a life experience that strengthens you is the most powerful vengeance anyone could have against the addiction to gamble.
      It doesn’t surprise me to hear that you are still working hard but I hope in time you will enjoy the fruits of your labour. How wonderful to read that you have peace in your heart – you worked so hard for it and I know it wasn’t easy for you.
      I wish you continued joy with your husband and your daughter – they are both very lucky to have Ell in their lives.
      Maybe one day you will pop back again but of course I understand that this site has been a chapter in your life that is now rightfully closed.
      Take care and enjoy your life
      Όπως πάντα αγαπητέ Ell
      με αγάπη
      V

    • #2199
      Anonymous
      Guest

      i read your story and i find my self thinking that thi can go forever. Its not that you dont love the person its just that the demond that goes with him doesnt go away.
      they mean well am sure all the times that they say that they want to change and everytime that they say that i would love to belive them but i have had the type of decussions with him that end up in fight,,m some like that i can kind of tell that he has an erg to gamble i can tell he gets mad easy and doent want to reason no matter what .. i truely hope that thinks change..please keep your hope up and know that your not alone …

    • #2200
      ell
      Participant

      Hello my dear friends
      Hello my dear dear velvet
      A little up date
      Im ok . Everything goes well with my cg . He is still free, and he goes to the councelor 2 times now in a month not every week . I spoke to the councelor and he said to me : ‘ your hb is a winner and you both are winners because the feelings and the love is still here” The gambling is far now …you are both special”
      My daughter still has medical issues but thanks god she is going very well .
      As velvet for my brother (the person of my life) he got a divorce 2 months now . He was devastated, He passed all the feelings I had and I recognize to him all the steps . Now he is still has Unger but he is so strong he tries to stand up for the right reasons. His wife had an affair with a 55 year old man reach and my brother didn’t know anything at all and he found 2 months now he ended the marriage immediately . he has the 50% of the custody and all 100% the education custody . He is with his sons and the counselor said that he is devastated but so strong and so wise to handle the situation. But my brother and I speak truly , he is devastated because his first dream was the family . A nice real family . He was in love with his wife and of course his wife denied everything and wanted my brother buck and the affair also . Both together . Anyway the issue was the money because the other man is so so reach and she wants money. But I want to say that is was 2 difficult months because when my brother said to me : “I think I need your help to stund up…” the game started for me and all the feelings were there once again ….I recognize again the anger the lies betray everything ….
      I can say v that I from all the gambling problem ia can say that if a couple devorse it is not both fault . IT IS NOT .
      She had a mystic affair ……if and I say if a couple have problems they must speak and communicate the problems, if the cannot fix it they devorse with respect . when someone goes have sex with someone else with an affair it is her decision and of course her fault because she choose it . Sh could first communicate the problems and then divorce with respect and then find a new man …But she said to me that the other man has moneyyy …and here in Greece is the issue…
      Anyway if you see my update you will realize that I speak for my brother , sorry for that but he is a very important person for me
      I still work in the red. My hb and I we work 24 h . All the hours . You all know the crisis here but the fealing is disaster , fear , and we need anything to have hope . It is so hard with no money nothing …Please god helps us stay at Europe …..
      I miss you v , and im tired for all the continuously problems…but I know that is life and I know inside me I want to feel all the feelings life has for me ..

      I will write and update soon … im going to leave my employees free now to get rest because they have to vote to another area ..
      With all my love
      Ell

    • #2201
      velvet
      Moderator

      Dear Ell
      I cannot begin to tell you how delighted I was to see your post. I think about you often – especially with the worrying news every day from Greece.
      How wonderful to read that you husband continues to control his addiction and that your daughter is doing very well – I hope her health issues can be resolved in time.
      I was so sorry to read your brother’s news. I remember only too well how important he was in supporting you – it was always a relief to me to know you had such a strong person to hold on to when the going was tough. I am sure the strength and wisdom he showed to you will carry him through this bad time.
      The way you handled your husband’s addiction Ell strengthened you, you learned to ride out the storm until you reached peace and tranquillity which is a lesson, I believe, you will never forget. It is your turn now to be the rock for your brother – I know you will do it well.
      Today Greece is voting and I hope that whatever decision is made, it is the right one for you and your country-men. I will be praying for you.
      As always you say words filled with wisdom – you are tired but you know that even to be tired is to be alive and able to feel. I hope that soon matters will be easier and I hope it will give you a grain of happiness to know that someone in another country thinks of you often.
      I hope you will be able to update with better news soon
      με αγάπη
      βελούδο

    • #2202
      monique
      Participant

      It was good to read your update. You continue to work very hard and are a very courageous woman. Thank you for all your news.
      Yes, we think of your country a lot these days. Things must feel very uneasy. But we all hope for positive steps forward that will improve things for everyone.

      Very best wishes,

      Monique

    • #2203
      ell
      Participant

      Hello to all my special fiends

      Hello me dear and lovely velvet
      I know that I haven’t written for a long time but you are always in my thoughts
      You were the most special person in my life
      Im doing ok . He is still free. He doesn’t have problems . He still goes to the therapist but no for the gamble just to improve himself
      I think that this gamble problem is in the past .
      We are together with love and with no problems . My daughter is now 4 years old and she is doing well with her health problems .
      Im ok I still work very very hard many many hours but thanks god we have jobs because here in Greece people don’t have jobs we have problem with the crises and with the refugees .
      Here in Greece all the people believe that we must help all the refugees that is our duty to feed them give them clothes medicines what ever they need. That is why we canont close the country . I don’t know what will happen but if you speak with the Greek people you will see that even we have our own crises we are very proud when we help (i am too). Anyway I hope that all the Europe will find a good solution for all of them and for us too.
      You are always in my thoughts . I hope that you and your family is healthy and happy.
      My update as you can see is a life with no gambling problems . But still have my eyes open .
      But I stiil cannot forgive …I haven’t reach there yet . I don’t know why but still cant . Many times I keep wondering why that happened many why and if .
      Something is keeping in the same path …I think that im stuck and in my heart I want to forgive .but i need Real forgivness. I have peace in my heart but when something happen my mind thinks the worst scenario . I think that someday I will forgive .
      Thank you all for all the help you gave me . and of course thank you velvet , you are a very special woman . You helped me and you still helping me and im very thankfull to you .
      My wishes to you and your family .
      Thank you for every thing
      Of course I will write again …..

      with all my love ell

    • #2204
      velvet
      Moderator

      Dear Ell
      In my opinion having read your post I don’t think you need to worry about forgiveness – you are together with love, your daughter is doing well and your husband is gamble-free.
      Have you ever had a pain that bothered you for ages and then one day you realised the pain was no longer there but you couldn’t actually say when it left you – I believe forgiveness is like that, it slowly grows within you until one day the realisation comes that things have truly changed. You are strong and independent Ell and I think you are struggling to accept that the man you chose to love and to be the father of your child, could not have known on some level that he was hurting you and your daughter and that he knew that what he was doing was wrong. I accept that I will never make sense of what happened to me but I firmly believe that nobody would ever choose addiction over freedom – it is for this reason, above all others, that convinces me that a CG who changes his/her life deserves forgiveness for actions carried out when in ignorance of the capability of the addiction that engulfed them – through no fault of their own – but I also believe that forgiveness after an experience such as yours must take time.
      I can’t say to you ‘ you must forgive him Ell’ because if you are not ready to do so then such words are futile but I believe that if you continue as you are doing then forgiveness will come. When I told my CG that I had forgiven him he said that he had not asked me for it and I replied that it was my choice to give it. When it comes Ell I know you will tell your husband but until then don’t let its absence spoil the wonderful life you are having together.
      I know you will understand when I say I have missed you and yet I am glad you are not here. I hear in the news all the problems your lovely country and people have had to endure and I pray for a better future for Greece and for the refugees. Every mention of Greece however always brings me a fond reminder of a very special Greek girl called Ell whom I am so pleased to have heard from again. It is such a joy to hear that your husband has truly embraced recovery and loves his Ell because I know how much she deserves it.
      I know one day I will hear from you again but until then I send my best wishes to you, your husband, your daughter, your mother and your brother.
      Όπως πάντα – με αγάπη
      Velvet

    • #2205
      dadda
      Participant

      Hi, Ell. I was reading through your whole thread. Your (screen) name is familiar to me but I wasn’t sure why. I am glad for you that things look to be going in positive directions.

      I was reading what you had to say, that he (still) goes to therapy, but to “improve himself”. When that is the case, I think it is awesome! I went to therapy for the longest time; the CG I was married to refused “there was nothing wrong with him” (his words and back then, I did not know about the gambling). Anyway, I hope it is encouraging for you, but I know that as I have learned more about myself and the big world too, I don’t just automatically fall back into destructive ways of “coping”. It sounds like maybe that is some of the growth he is having through therapy? I sure hope so.

      At the same time, I too hear what you say about forgiveness. There are a lot of sayings about forgiveness and I won’t talk about them, it just seems to me that forgiveness, like being in a good mood, can’t be “forced” or just because you want to.

      BUT one thing I learned through therapy and study is that many of the things we think (and learn in school or from society) are not always true. For example, anger. SO many people will just say “anger is bad”. No, it’s what can result from anger that MIGHT be bad. Anger (the energy from it) can actually be used in a positive way. But usually, a person has to be able to look at several options and the (likely) consequences of their actions and CHOOSE how to respond to the anger. Anger, like fear, tells us something might be wrong and tells us to check things out.

      I think that you, even without therapy, show a lot of self-awareness about yourself and also about how the gambling has affected you. I did not realize you are in Greece until later in your thread and honestly, I don’t have a lot of chances to keep up on news, but I have heard some about the financial problems there and I can only say that it is completely understandable how the national problems can make your personal ones much harder and scarier. I also don’t know how the gambling there operates, here in U.S. it is often (the money raised) partially part of the government revenue and budget. There are big billboards and ads here, encouraging gambling, but the warnings are in very small print and downplayed. When I have posted about CG, people (often) tell me things like “it’s entertainment” and how gambling (industry) can’t be part of “people’s problems”. That is what makes me have a hard time with forgiveness. Also because here, you can’t just “walk away” from gambling debt, like to a casino. But you can walk away from what is owed a spouse or children. I struggle to just get through each month.

      I ended up with PTSD as a result of all the experiences I went through. One of the things with PTSD is that your whole view of “reality” (what you think it is and how it works) is torn to shreds. One of the ways to recover from PTSD is to look at things and make a new framework of reality, putting in the things you have learned from your own experiences. For me, that has sometimes meant standing up and saying “no” when other people try to force me back into the old framework. So I am wondering if that is part of what you are going through? And maybe the “forgiveness” is bigger than “just” forgiving your husband?

      When I DID find out about the gambling, I told my husband that he didn’t have to tell me more than I knew about. Most of it all (despite the consequences to me and our daughters) was “between him and God” (that’s my faith, but not saying it has to be looked at that way by everyone). The main point is that the truth had come out and therefore, the problems could be solved. He chose not to do that, but I was able to forgive him on one hand while I still struggle with some of the actions he’s taken, since then, that I still have to cope with. My problems with forgiveness don’t have to do with the person, they have to do with all the other stuff going on that “helps” someone develop a gambling problem and makes light of the problem, ignores it and so on. Your nation (like our govt) can’t even fix its own problems and then you are asked to take on more!

      Anyway, I don’t know if this all makes sense or not but I hope some of it does. I don’t mean that my experience and yours are “the same” just that there are a lot of complex things (I think) that go into a gambling problem and as you work on recovering from it, you find out things that you would never have guessed, before. It takes time and strength to put things where they belong and understand, and that’s all while you are trying to take care of everything else.

      I hope things continue in a positive direction for you and your family! Your writing has also helped me. Sending you the very best wishes and hopes for future!

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